| Re: HELP! With positive confession theology.|
see Duet 28-31
This is the foundation of the doctrine. It is based on the Law of Moses and is rooted in works.
Other passages that have been presented to me as a basis for
are as follows:
1. Mt. 12:37
3. Rom. 10:10/ Rom. 10:17
2 Cor. 4:13
2 Cor. 4:16-18
2 Cor. 5:7
5. There probably are alot more verses, but these are the
ones that come to mind, currently.
Have also heard mention of "the fruit of the lips"
possibly referring to those passages in Isaiah and
Hebrews 13, perhaps.
Though there is a small element of truth to it,
They fail to fully investigate the context of the passages and the meaning of the words in the verses used.
It's each individuals choice to live either by Law or Grace, unto sin/death or life, respectively.
I hardly ever find myself needing anything much more, so prayers in this regard, save one:"GIVE ME JESUS!", have not been requested for how long i can't even remember...yERAs
I'll continue in the ole' prayer closet. He hears, answers, and gives before i know it will be needed.
Honestly, there are far better benefits asking and recieving more than we could ask or think, than thinking that by saying something a certain way, i have done the right(eous) thing neccessary to force God's hand in a matter and get exactly what i want-which is usually less than what we need.
Ask these folks how this mumbo-jumbo has promoted Jesus in their lives and others. Has it brought them into a deeper revelation of who He is to them or is it a matter of tit for tat, this for that, sowing and reaping -[to say little of the source]?
The overflowing blessings of God are for the purpose of establishing His (eternal)covenant in the earth.
If blessings have little or nothing to do with this purpose, one would do well to consider the source of such "blessing".
(satan can hear you speak things ,too.)
| 2010/3/26 21:30|
| Re: |
Here is an expert on the subject.
| 2010/3/26 22:05||Profile|
| what city?|
In LA? what city are you in? I know of a good strong (small) church in Baton Rouge. They are dedicated and love Jesus.
| 2010/3/26 22:07||Profile|
| Re: what city?|
"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9,10).
"Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession." (Hebrews 4:14).
We should be filling our hearts with the Word of God and speaking it out of our mouths. The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit, and we should be saying and confessing what God says in His Word.
"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith." (Mark 11:23).
Just because some men have perverted the truth of positive confession and have used it in an unscriptural fashion does not diminish the power of the word of God that is spoken in the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
God's Words are Spirit and life, and it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.
| 2010/3/27 8:53||Profile|
| Re: |
"Positive Confession", as it has been labeled, is nothing more than choosing to believe and agee with God's Word rather than circumstances or situations that indicate that God's Word is not true.
As an example.....
If I were to get up tomorrow morning and "feel" as if I were no longer saved would that mean I had lost my salvation? Of course not! I am born again because I repented of my sins, believed the Gospel, and fully embraced Jesus Christ and His precious blood as the only means of my salvation and justification. That is the truth no matter what my feelings say.
If I then begin to quote and take comfort in God's Word and promises that show me to be in right relationship with him, regardless of what devils, inlaws, or my fickle feelings say, THAT IS POSITIVE CONFESSION. It is when I confess God's word to be true no matter the circumstance, how I feel, or what my eyes see. God's eternal truth will be proven true when the dust is settled. To receive that promise, or truth, that God has made simply requires us to actually believe it and hold fast to it. Again, just like at salvation it is believing God's Word to be true by faith.
That is all that positive confession is. Undoubtedly some people have taken it to extremes at times. I admire their zeal and commitment but encourage them to be more accurate discerners of God's Word. On the other hand I have found it just as likely that the person up in arms over a so called, "error of positive confession", simply does not have the faith or nerve to actually take God at His Word, stand on it in faith, and be willing to confess it as true even when life circumstances say it won't be. I encourage folks to be cautious that you are not found guilty of speaking badly of those whom God may view as exercising great faith in Him and His Word.
In addition to obtaining two Bachelors degrees I also attended and graduated from Ken Hagin's Rhema Bible Training Center. How I described positive confession is EXACTLY how Hagin taught it....in a concise nutshell it is this......
We can confess to be true and receive by faith anything that God has specifically promised us in His Word. If He has not promised it in His Word we can not recieve it by faith for faith only comes by hearing the Word. Therefore we CAN NOT have faith for anything that is not promised in His Word.. but we can have faith in, confess as true, and recieve anything He DID specifically promise in His Word.
That is the lock, stock, and barrel of the teaching on "Positive Confession" as taught by Kenneth Hagin to the students at RBTC. I fail to see fault in that... of course there may be any number of people you meet that teach in error on this point. However, it is also regrettable that many Christians now live well below God's desire in many areas of their life because they have wrongly understood the term "Positive Confession".
It really does just mean that we agree with God and His Word.
| 2010/3/27 10:43||Profile|
| Re: |
They say that they are declaring the Word of the Lord; however, we are commanded by Jesus to decalare what?
(in the whole N.T., where is this positive confession expounded as part of Jesus' or the apostles' teachings?)
There is a misgnomer regarding Rom. 10:17, and hooked in with it is the concept behind Rom 4:17, however, it appears that reading Romans in light of the whole W.O.O.F.(tm) doctrine, it's foundation here can be traced back to Rom. 1:17.
In Rom. 1:17, because the KJV sometimes does us the dissservice of convoluting subjective and objective genetives, they are often confused-which can lead to false doctrine. A more appropriate rendering, but with overemphasis on correct s/o gentetives of that verse is:
"FOR OF GOD, IN 'IT'
( 'it' refers to 'the Gospel of Jesus Christ' in Rom. 1:16)
RIGHTEOUSNESS IS LAID OPEN
FROM (His) FAITH(fulness)
EVEN AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN,
'BUT THE JUST(ified) SHALL LIVE BY (His) FAITH(fulness).
( Hab. 2:4 / Is. 59:16 )
Faith(fulness) is a gift (of grace) and grace is a gift (of faith).
Eph. 2:8 & Rom. 5:2
Both are gifts from God. Though you may be able to believe God, these are gifts from him in the first place.
Every man is dealt 'the' (singular and same) measure of faith, and it is wrong to think that we can build up faith (which comes from God), (Rom. 12:3). How does one build upon God's Faith(fulness), when God's faith(fulness) is perfect?
A person may say "oh, but God gave it to me... now it's mine and i must build it up.'
To this a few questions are asked:
1. How can man build on God's good and perfect gift?
2. If it becomes your faith(fulness), then is it God's any longer? Lk. 16:12
3. Are you replacing dependence on Jesus Christ and what he has done for you with confidence in what you do through speaking? Is this faith in your efforts, or is it in Jesus? Lk. 16:13 Gal. 2:16
Re: Rom. 4:17
Only God can create something out of nothing. Unless you are staking a claim, like Lucifer, to become like God ( Is. 14:14 ), the best we humans can do is reduce something to nothing, whether it is word or deed. Jer. 10:23 Eccl. 7:20 Rom. 3:11-12 Rom. 3:13-14. Consider the temptation deceiving Eve was all about becoming like God. ( 2 Cor. 11:3-4 )
Rom 10:17 The 'Word' of God spoken of here is rhema and not logos. A message-[logos] can be named and (pro)claimed yet still not produce faith(fulness); however, when God has provided you with the neccesary revelation of that logos-[rhema], you will be able to act in faith(fulness) on it.
There is no claim here that positive confessionism is without substance. Hitler's right hand propeganda man prove to the whole world his statement that, "if you tell a lie long enough, it becomes the truth." (Why just look what Obama did in one year by these methods, tripling a national deficit that took over 222 years to accumulate to what it was before he began lying to america.)
As well, out of everybody in the world, people believe what they themselves say the most. This is what positive affirmations were developed toward...
but turning this into a positive confession for the sake of 'personal' blessing? In this, one rests their hope in what they do or do not say, and their object of faith is the material benefit the confession is humanly rationalized to achieve.
When a person strives after fertility (aka prosperity) in fortune and everything that goes to hell with it, they have instituted a form of baal worship into their life.
Jesus and the apostles never ever taught on positive confessionism; and, one is hard pressed in proving that they spoke much of anything except the cold hard facts in front of them with a message and proof of hope in God.
One thing that does stand out in Jesus teaching and the apostles' is prayer. There are many verses in the apostles' writings that direct us in prayer regarding everything.
Jesus alone, from Jn 14:13 to Jn 16:26 told us to pray in His name -['name', loosely rendered to mean 'towards His purpose in His Authority']- and he will do it. He did not state it once, twice or even three times. From ch. 14 - 16, Jesus said to pray in His name seven times and says nothing about positive confession.
How's your prayer life?
I Jn. 5:21
I Jn. 2:15
How has Jesus revealed himself to you?
I Jn. 2:17
| 2010/3/27 17:53|
| Re: |
by Solomon101 on 2010/3/27 6:43:09
>"Positive Confession", as it has been labeled, is nothing more than choosing to believe and agree with God's Word rather than circumstances or situations that indicate that God's Word is not true.
Situations and circumstances do not indicate that God's Word is not true. If any Christian thinks such, they are not resting their hope in what God says. Their focus is in the wrong place. II Cor. 4:17 II Cor 4:18
The Word of God is not the Bible!
this is written.
When God has told me to speak into a situation, any type of situation, be it in regards to persons, places, or things,
[rhema], it has resulted in drastic immediate change; but, this is not done in thinking that it is what i say has any major significance, except in regard to obedience. As well,
it is hardly always through quoting a verse of scripture.
Case in point,
Last fall, roofing a house, the compressor broke down.
After several attempts bypassing different electrical components/switches, -(not having an ohm meter to check)- plugging it back in, and trying to restart it, nothing worked. After disconnecting the power and taking everything apart, except the motor, the cause of malfunction could not be found.
The screwdriver and plier in hand were thrown to the ground below. Forcing this head between my knees, in frustration, yelled out were these words, "God, i can't fix it! HELP ME PLEASE!"
Immediately, He told me, "get up! Plug it in, and tell it to work." Immediately, this was done. when the words were shouted, "YOU WORK!" - while still disassembled, it began running.
The people who (i did not know) were watching were astounded. They also were quite shocked with antics of running and jumping and praising Jesus on a roof- 4/12 pitch.
Now, just because "in the name of Jesus" was not incanted, did that make that short prayer of frustration of any less effect?
I did not go through the rigamarole of using scripure to hedge the bet, like:
"Abba, Your Word said that where my treasure was my heart would also be, and because of this i am seated with Christ Jesus in Heavenly places, walking in His authority in the earth because of Matthew 28:18-19, and, Jesus said to ask in His name that my joy may be full...etc."
God working in your life is not so much a matter of knowing what you think you should say when you think you should say them so much as who and what you are depending upon.
There are well and way over 3,000 promises in God's Word covering everything we could ever need. As well, there are open ended promises that cover everything not explicitly covered.
The problem is that so often, what we think we need is based on the way we see things and not towards God's purposes at all.
Herein is the neccessity in prayer.
In the finished work of Jesus Christ, before he gave up the ghost, he freed up for everyone who will believe and recieve, all that is revealed through His redemptive names in the O.T. >[ Yaweh:-tsidkenu, -M'Kaddesh,-rophe,-yireh,-shalom etc]
Why would anybody want to preach anything other than Jesus Christ and Him Cricified, misleading others into placing their trust in what they themselves say or do, instead of what Jesus has done for them already when he gave up his life so we can walk in Him???
( in this verse we find a catch-all for everything not found promised in the scriptures. Still, it is not our choice for certain 'all things' that neccesarily determines our lot in life. All things is all things: the good and the bad.
Jesus finished the work He came to complete before he died, and what one works into their speech is not going to make it more true, though it can often detract from God's work.
"6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(The AV is hardly strong enough in using the word 'accursed'. What the greek word actually means is, 'let him be cut off from any doings with the Messianic community of faith and cursed to eternal damnation.' It is not just stated once, but is reiterated, indicating that this is the most important statement embodied herein.)
We all do good to ask ourselves, where is our heart?
II Cor 13:5
(It's wished that you will do well to study into the example found in Jeremiah, ch7, paying special attention to the words found in vv. 3-11. The emphasis of the message can be found in v. 8)
| 2010/3/28 7:12|