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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, all of your righteousness is as filthy rags...saved by grace not works lest any man should boast...paul at the end of his ministry still calls himself the cheif of sinners...sin does not send you to hell;the Fathersjudgement on sin does and Jesus has taken that judgement on Himself...i could go on and on.jimp

 2010/2/15 21:20Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
jimp said:
all of your righteousness is as filthy rags

Do you know what that means?
Why was our righteousness as filthy rags?

[b]Please answer this, it's not rhetorical[/b].

Quote:
Paul at the end of his ministry still calls himself the chief of sinners

Referring to 1 Timothy 1:15.
Paul wasn't meaning that he was currently a sinner.

In context to 1 Timothy 1:9 which says, " Knowing this, that [b]the law is not made for a righteous man, but for[/b] the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for [b]sinners[/b], for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers...

So, if Paul was actually calling himself a sinner, then he wasn't a righteous man & the law was made for the likes of him.

Quote:
sin does not send you to hell

Huh?
Yes it does, without sin we would not be condemned.

Quote:
Father's judgment on sin does

Semantics...

 2010/2/15 21:48Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

Quote:
Do you agree with some posters here that God should do this instantaneously when you get saved and the Holy Spirit resides in you? And that the inward sins of pride, bitterness, lust, envy, etc are forever gone?



No x 2.

I do not care much for theories and arguments... as I have found in my own life that these often do not hold water, and offer no foundation for practical reality in day to day life.

As for those here on this site who claim that it is possible to not sin... I would first ask for their definition of sin... It is very possible that their understanding of sin is quite similar to the definition that the Pharisees had back in the time of Jesus.

"As long as I don't lust, or cheat, or lie, or steal, I am not sinning."

O really?

In not doing those things, you did not worship God in spirit and in truth, you simply did not do something. That is not to be confused with actually doing something. Doesn't Paul say, anything that does not proceed from faith is sin?

Christianity is more than simply do's and do nots. Those that claim perfection is possible if you 'walk in the spirit' have a legalistic holiness.

Their actions and inactions are not driven by a primary motivation for the glory of God through the cross of Christ.

Do you guys who think perfection is possible here, really think you're going to change the leanings of my heart towards racism by telling me that racism is wrong?

Are you really going to change my proud heart by telling me some story about how pride is bad?

Are you going to make me love my neighbor by telling me that it is a commandment?

Don't be deceived. The root of sin lies much deeper than choice. There is a reason people make choices. The reason behind the choice is the wickedness of the heart of man.

Why did I choose to look at that half-dressed girl on campus?

Did I think, I WANT TO SIN, I'M GONNA LOOK AT HER!!!

Not really, but my flesh gets pleasure out of sensuality... leading me to want the gratification of looking.

Are you going to change my appetite for sexual lust by telling me to stop it?

Let's be honest.

As a Christian grows, there will be more and more victory in the life, simply because growing means receiving more revelation about God, leading to a deeper love for Him. An individual who does not know much about God will not have much victory over inner sins... but as sanctification continues, the victories will become more frequent.


_________________
Sba

 2010/2/15 22:03Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

Edit- Bad internet = Double post. =(


_________________
Sba

 2010/2/15 22:03Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
bible4life said:
but we are sinners still saved by grace.

There is no such thing as a saved sinner.
There is no saved drunk, saved druggy, saved fornicator...etc...

We are saints, saved by grace who were once sinners.

Quote:
So we are saying that we are saved by Christ but it us who will have to continue to perform and work to keep that status of justification, no it is only by Christ.

If you don't keep that status of justification and fall into sin, then Christ will be nothing to you.

Quote:
There are sins the Lord has not revealed to all of us even yet.

How is it possible to not know of a sin?

If you are in sin & don't know about it, how are you culpable?
How should you repent?
Why wouldn't God reveal it yet?

Quote:
yes you should desire to live and be perfect in your walk, but you will not by your works not until your glorified will you be sinless.

So, is death our savior from sin?

Tell me, why can't you stop sinning?
Pease answer this, it is not rhetorical.

 2010/2/15 22:05Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
IWantAnguish said:
Do you guys who think perfection is possible here, really think you're going to change the leanings of my heart towards racism by telling me that racism is wrong?

Why can't you love other races and not sin?

Quote:
Are you really going to change my proud heart by telling me some story about how pride is bad?

Why can't you just not be pridefull?
What is stopping you?
Plaes answer this, it is not rhetorical.

Quote:
Are you going to make me love my neighbor by telling me that it is a commandment?

Why can't you love him?
God told you to, He must think you can.
God surely wouldn't command you to love your neighbor if you couldn't.

Quote:
Don't be deceived. The root of sin lies much deeper than choice. There is a reason people make choices. The reason behind the choice is the wickedness of the heart of man.

Nope, the reason behind the choice is because they want to, not because of the wickedness of the heart of man.

The will of man makes the man's heart wicked. It is not the other way around.
Wickedness of the heart does not make the choices of man.

Quote:
Why did I choose to look at that half-dressed girl on campus?

Because she was pretty.
That is not a sin to see a pretty woman and acknowledg her beauty.
However, you did not have to lust after her, you have a choice in that matter.

Quote:
Did I think, I WANT TO SIN, I'M GONNA LOOK AT HER!!!

because just looking is not a sin.

Quote:
Not really, but my flesh gets pleasure out of sensuality... leading me to want the gratification of looking.

I like to look at pretty girls, but I do not lust after them.
However, I don't stare at them and dwell on their beauty.
It is not sinfull to see pretty women.

you can control yourself.
Self control is of the Fruit of the Spirit.

Quote:
Are you going to change my appetite for sexual lust by telling me to stop it?

Appetites are not bad or wrong in & of themselves, in fact appetite is good unless it's used wrongly &/or not kept in check.

God gave all mankind a sexual appetite. I have a great sexual appetite, but I only satisfy it with my wife.

Quote:
Let's be honest.

Yes, let's understand what sin realy is.
apparently, you are a bit confused on what sin is.

 2010/2/15 22:24Profile









 Re:

"I also think there may be people who never sinned besides Jesus. We just wouldn't necessarily hear about them." benjoseph

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" Rom 3:22-24

 2010/2/16 8:52









 Re:

Quote:
"I also think there may be people who never sinned besides Jesus. We just wouldn't necessarily hear about them." benjoseph

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" Rom 3:22-24


This passage says "all HAVE sinned" - it does not say "all WILL sin". It was written two thousand years ago and was only referring to people who had sinned up to that point. Not only does it allow for people who have not sinned since then, but in context I believe it is only saying that Jews, God's chosen people, have sinned as much as the other nations. The whole context of the passage is about whether Jews were better than the gentiles. It has nothing to do with whether a single individual lived a sin-free life.

If you want to read my notes on this passage I've stored them here http://sites.google.com/site/benstenson/romans_3_9-30

 2010/2/16 10:00









 Re:

"This passage says "all HAVE sinned" - it does not say "all WILL sin". It was written two thousand years ago and was only referring to people who had sinned up to that point." benjoseph

Romans 3:21-24 Righteousness Through Faith
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

He is simply describing righteousness apart from the law in Christ which has now been made known to which the Law and the Prophets testify. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile for both have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jews and Gentiles are still here today. And there is also no difference between the two if they accept Christ and are justified freely by God's grace in Christ. No difference... both have sinned and both can be justified in Christ. As has been stated via testimony of the law and prophets, The Bible is capable of prophecy and therefore we can also assume that 'ALL have' means then, now, and in the future. It also says 'ALL who believe' as all who believe in Christ it will be credited to them as righteousness. We can't separate the two. Either 'ALL' means 'ALL' as in then and always moving forward or 'ALL' means just up to that point for both. And if the latter is the case then Christ is not for today but just then. It doesn't say 'ALL will believe' yet the promise of righteousness in Christ is still for today. The prophets testified to then and now, as the world and the sin in it has not changed. I don't know about you but I see sinfulness all around me today and the sins committed look similar to the ones then.... so they need a Savior. And if 'all who believe' are just for the sin that pertains to just then... then no one should be calling Jesus as Lord and Savior today. I see sin today just as there was then and I see a Savior at work just as there was then. Otherwise the cross is in vain.


Revelations speaks of church repentance. Repentance from what? And when? Was this only for them 2000 years ago too?

 2010/2/16 10:28
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ccrider said:
"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Those who might have never sinned would definitely have faith, otherwise they would have sinned.

 2010/2/16 11:02Profile





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