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Sandra Miller

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Matt Smith

I'm as guilty as anyone of getting in silly moods and indulging in "foolish talk (and) jesting, which are not convenient." Eph. 5:4 But when we are in the right spirit, humor is a legitimate weapon in the Christian arsenal. There is no better way to disaffect people to something than getting them to laugh at it. Consider Isaiah's satire of the idolator who uses half a log to make a god and the other half to cook his dinner. Is. 44:14-16 should we scold Isaiah for joking about something serious? Granted, the Bible's use of humor is limited. But I don't see any passage of Scripture that tells us to pray for false prophets. We're not even supposed to bid them godspeed. 2 John 10

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Wayne Kraus

oh bless the Lord, and bless you!

i was feeling WRONG for laughing, and then i felt a Godly grief, when put the ministry of Evan Roberts alongside Todd bentley.....page 48 to 65.....Ginny, wouldnt you think that todd would read of Evan's high and holy humble calling and just be pricked to the heart?

much much love in Christ, neil xo

Good word HooHoou. Pentecostal/charismatics understand that the Lord moves in strange ways, so it is not a huge leap for John Crowder or Bentley to take it a step further and say that the Lord moves in silly ways.

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Wayne Kraus

I completely agree with what you're saying, HooHoou. However, I don't think that teaching people to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the problem. (see 1 Cor. 14:1) The problem rather is Satan's ambassadors masquerading as angels of light, and deceiving poor ignorant souls that are very sincere in desiring a touch from God. When miraculous manifestations aren't tested by the Word of God, and are embraced just because they're supernatural and the name "Jesus" is shouted over them, then it becomes dangerous. (there's many people here in Mexico named "Jesus" -the question is WHICH "Jesus", 2 Cor. 11:4). Many of the manifestations promoted in many charismatic/pentecostal churches go outside the bounds of biblical example and are therefore extra-Scriptural and based only on experience, and therefore should not be promoted. I would rather reject an experience because it's not in the Bible than to reject the Bible because it doesn't embrace my experience. But many are rejecting the plain teaching of Scripture as if it's some "old revelation" in favor of some "new revelation" that these false prophets claim to have with their "new wave" of new age babylonian spiritism masked in Christianity.

Well balanced and biblical teaching on the genuine gifts of the Spirit should be done more often in my opinion (1 Cor. 12:1). God gave the real gifts to edify the Body of Christ and to help us fulfill the Great Commission. But with that should come instruction on how to recognize the counterfeit. These "kundalini" awakening demons have no place in the Body of Christ and should be discerned and rejected immediately wherever they appear.

Every teacher and preacher of the Word of God needs to be tested by their fruit, Mat 7:15-20 -which I understand to consist primarily of two things: (1) Their character/conduct and (2) Their doctrine/teachings. If there is manifestly bad fruit in either of these two things (i.e. works of iniquity in conduct or major doctrinal errors in fundamentals) then the prophet is a false prophet. We need to test the spirits, and test the prophets, and test our experiences. This does not mean we should judge others. To judge is to pass a sentence, and that is up to God alone, except in certain occasions of church discipline (1 Cor 5:12-13). But we must test all things, 1 Thes 5:21, in order to see if they are of God, or if they are of the evil one, in order to know whether to recieve them or to reject them. And contrary to modern opinion, it is actually a spiritual virtue commended by Jesus to test, recognize and reject false teachers, Rev. 2:2. The Bereans themselves were counted noble for questioning the message of the great Apostle Paul in order to test his doctrine with Scripture, Acts 17:11. -Of course, he passed the test! True messengers of God need not fear to face trial by Scripture, for such will only vindicate and reaffirm their message!

If there's any on this message board caught up in this Toronto Blessing/Prophetic Movement type stuff, I urge you in the name of Jesus Christ, seek God, study His Word, and test all things.

I can see the hearts of those here who are concerned about this and am humbled and encouraged. One thing Paul talks about though which I think is very important and to my knowledge has yet to be put forward is the powerful delusion God will send in the last days. I believe that is here today. This is why I believe many do not test the spirits in the light of Scripture. Judgment is on the church, those who want and seek signs and wonders to satisfy either unbelief or just to have a 'feeling/experience' will get what they want from false prophets.

2 Thessalonians 2:5-12 (New International Version)

5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11FOR THIS GOD SENDS THEM A POWERFUL DELUSION so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Paul also says 'pray without ceasing' and I want to believe that many will be plucked out of this by God's mercy and the pleading of the saints for His mercy. Deception is utterly evil... it blinds, binds, and taunts truth. The only time deception enjoys truth is when it's too late. My heart sinks with the very thought of it.

We talk about the coming of Christ and the events Jesus described in Matthew that precedes His coming. We look at the tragedy in Haiti and are reminded. But if you look at this scripture it also gives a glimpse of what precedes the coming of the lawless one.... it is in accordance with all kinds of conterfeit miracles, signs, and wonders. Brethren, we must be mindful of these times in both scenarios.

I believe ccrider has stated the matter carefully and lovingly. My concern was the lack of love and concern for anyone that is believed in error. Do we stamp them as rejects or love them enough to be truly broken hearted over their condition. I do not condone the stupid stuff that goes on in some circles, but I feel the word says I am to love the brethern. Well we might ask who is our brother? Only the the separation of the tares and wheat will reveal that for sure. Until then I will treat all that speak the name of Jesus, other than a cuss word, as a brother and intercede for them that they will walk in truth. We must alway err on the side of love.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


We need to test the spirits, whether they be of God, but we need to love those in error enough to truly be broken and grieving for them and crying out until their eyes are open. You might say but they never listen. You don't know the end until the end. While it is still day we can work.

Also when a brother is in error or sinning we need to go to them and tell them what is correct not just talk about them. I have done this before, even to some in leadership and have been rejected and accepted. But I have continued to pray and love the rejectors. It is not up to us to stamp them as rejects.

I must ask do you love Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, etc or not. Do you love them so much that you will not let God rest until you see them fulfill all God has for them in truth? Christ died for them and loves them. Do you spend as much time grieving and fasting and calling upon God to help them as you do discussing them? That is love if you do and I commend you.

We are all in danger of walking in error. We each need God's mercy and love. The enemy blinds even the big ones at times. Which is a good point, if we humble ourselves and make of ourselves no reputation we will not fall so easily and most likely not as far.

I say to you all love these men as Christ does. I read in the word that He is at the Father's right hand interceding for them, and us.

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KLC

Neil, when people are deceived they got there through making wrong choices. It does not seem to matter much who says what and when regardless of facts, they will not see it or understand any other point of view. We like to think that if you would show them scripture that would refute it, they would be pricked in their heart and be compelled to repent. Not so UNLESS the Holy Spirit is still working with them. Too many times deceived folks have seared their conscience by going against better knowledge.

Consider Bentley. While he was at Lakeland 'ministering' to thousands, do you not think the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his adulterous affair? How can the guy keep on going, using Jesus' name, thinking he is doing God's work and still violate his marriage vows? And there were miracles following! Miracles do not prove the validity of any ministry. Miracles grab people's attention alright, and in some cases it does glorify God, but it is the walk of the 'miracle worker' that one must check out: is he/she living a holy lifestyle?

This is the way I understand it....

BTW, being deceived is awful. When I was a young girl I did something dreadful and after I realized how bad it was it took me years before I could forgive myself for having been so dumb and stupid. What did I do? I found a 'letter from an angel' in my deceased grandparents Bible. Included in this letter were warnings that one should make copies to distribute and woe on you if you don't. Well, what did I do? I took it to school and read it at the the devotional time!!! Sure I was young and ignorant, but it still should never have happened...But the lesson I learned is that anything like this is BOGUS and to be discarded. NOW! And do not hang on to it because there may be some good in it - a little yeast leavens the entire lump! except in this case it was all wrong....

ginnyrose

EDIT: likely the reason I was able to understand that I was deceived is because I was so young and tender. Not so with older people who seemed to have had some maturity.

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Sandra Miller

Do I love these men? I love them as Jesus loved them. He loved them enough to tell them that they were white washed tombs full of dead mens bones. These men are not in error on some point of doctrine. They are blasphemous of the Holy Spirit, they are deceitful, they are polluting the precious gospel of salvation. These people are not brothers for you will know a tree by its fruit. I understand what you are saying, Goldminer, but the word also says that if any of these cause so much as one little lamb to stumble it would be better for them at judgment for a millstone to be tied around their neck and cast into the sea. That is harsh, but what they are doing will ultimately send many to hell because they are teaching a false gospel, they haven't just erred in judgment, they lack judgment, and live a lifestyle of deceit.

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Matt Smith