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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Andrew Strom and Prophetic Movement

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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: ccrider from 2010/1/19 8:32:29

I've wanted to comment but I've been running in and out all week so better late than never!

Quote:
As far as I know, Bentley has not monetarily reimbursed those who donated heavily to the movement... those who were not healed as promised...


This breaks my heart... The word of the Living God says to [b]provide things HONEST in the sight of all men[/b] and when they don't EVEN apologize and /or acknowledge their wrong doing - that speaks volumes of a person's character: Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner... anyone really.

As God's people, we NEED to resolve within ourselves to live honestly and peaceability with all men.

Well anyway, I agreed with everything you wrote, I just picked out that one portion!

God bless you, cc~!


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Lisa

 2010/1/21 18:35Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: wayneman

Quote:
We do know that sincerity is no guarantee against deception if we neglect to "try the spirits." 1 John 4:1 William Branham was a simple minded man who appeared to be very sincere, but we know he wasn't the real deal because he didn't preach Christ - all he talked about was himself and his revelations...like Bentley. But Branham appears to have worked genuine healing miracles...unlike Bentley.


I did not know this about Branham.

Thank you!! and God bless!!


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Lisa

 2010/1/21 18:37Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Quote:
War on the Saints has some excellent guidelines for discerning the spirits. There are passages, especially in the appendix, that describe Lakeland to a tee. It is controversial because it teaches that Christians can be demon-possessed. Most editions today are abridged to exclude that doctrine. A full text is available at Lighthouse Libraries. I'm going to skim thru it again this weekend.



Interesting. I heard some of the original diagrams were taken out too...maybe they were in reference to Christian possession. Can you post a link for Lighthouse Libraries? I searched but couldn't find it.


****EDIT**** Found it!!


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Paul

 2010/1/21 19:42Profile
wayneman
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Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

Sorry, it's [url=lighthouselibrary.org]Light House Library[/url] not "Libraries." It has a lot of free e-books by Nee, Grubb, Penn-Lewis, etc.


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Wayne Kraus

 2010/1/21 20:30Profile
Giggles
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Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

It's wild wayneman, the more I research this book the more controversey I find. Strong advocates both for and against it.

The pros say Penn-Lewis has was on to something great, has 'penned' one of the greatest works in Christian literature that all Christians should read, and that it was so spot-on accurate there is a conspiracy afoot in the priniting of the abridged version (and some of the unabridged reprints) that remove crucial content (specifically the doctrine that Christians can be possessed and some various diagrams).

On the con side, it is said that Penn is the cause for suppressing the Welsh Revival, intimidating Roberts into uncertainty (and emotional breakdown) about what God was doing, creating a confusing labrynth of demon doctrine that indecipherably blurs the line of their influence and legitimate divine manifestations to where an almost paranoia sets in over spiritual activity, and she quotes "lost" writings by Christ Himself that have been held up as equal with the Bible.

I must say it has been fascinating researching the book because of this controversy. There is definitely something here either extremely beneficial for the Kingdom or something terribly amiss. There is too much mystery and draw for it to be otherwise.

What are your takes on it?


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Paul

 2010/1/21 21:56Profile
wayneman
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Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

I read somewhere that Evan Roberts later repudiated the book; Penn-Lewis never did. What to make of it? I don' know for sure, but in my spirit it has sort of a dull ring to it. It isn't vibrant like her other books. It is worth reading because it explores realities that are almost never addressed, and because its descriptions of counterfeit spiritual experiences so closely parallel the Lakeland, Toronto and Bentley blessings. It also explores a side of the Welsh Revival that is omitted from the glowing histories we've read. But it seems to have been written in fear, as if Jessie and Evan were still shaking from some terror they'd experienced. My verdict: read it, but read it quickly and take it with a grain of salt.


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Wayne Kraus

 2010/1/22 0:15Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Andrew Strom and Prophetic Movement

To your original question about Andrew Strom. If the measure of a man is in part a reflection from his family than Andrew is safe. The favor of God rests on him and his family. I supose they are human just like the rest of us, but he has a message and it's not always easy to go against the tide. The ministries he is warning about? I personally don't know any of them, I haven't run in those circles, I don't really watch tv, or very little, even christian tv, when something big happens i usually am aware of it at the tail end. In TB case I begged God to let it be real. Romans says to judge nothing before the time, so I'm real slow about things, especially in the church. TB shouldn't be in any visiable ministry at all, he would do well to take a lowly place and complete his repentance. And you don't need discernment to see the fruits of repentance, so I really don't need to know his heart, he'll repeat the same failure again and again only it'll be hid better next time.
I do believe, however that good men can make mistakes and I supose that may be the case with some of the people on Andrews list. The outward manifestations are also common and can be plainly seen in scripture, but the end result is a Fear of the Lord, that usually what the Holy Spirit produces as He does whats needed in the lives of believers in showing them Christ. The giftings were intended to make us like Jesus and therefore the manifestations likewise, we are changed from glory to glory.

On a personal level, I appreciate men of God who study out situations like the ones Andrew tackled and they bring forth knowledge, but at the end of the day every individual has to be fully convinced in thier own minds before thier Creator and walk accordingly. I would say that those who Fear the Lord all the day will have continual divine guidence and will be free from deceptions of all types. Rember Carter Conlon warned of a false holiness movement too, so as the pendulm swings the opposite way lets not throw out the baby with the bath water. The gifts are real and when the Holy Spirit manifests people react differently, shaking, crying, laughter, falling, etc...God doesn't opperate on our (emotional/intellectual) comfort level. Maybe the church needs a fresh baptism of the Fear of the Lord?


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D.Miller

 2010/1/22 9:06Profile
JS
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Joined: 2009/11/23
Posts: 32
Behind a Computer Desk

 Re:

After reading the posts on this thread, I did some research on the "kundalini" spirit mentioned. After a few minutes, I came across a video called "Holy Spirit or Kundalini Spirit Breakout?" This was of an actual church service, and I couldn't bear to watch this horrible pagan gathering! I wanted to tell all the people in the video, "The LORD rebuke you! The LORD rebuke you all!"

One viewer's comment echoed my own thoughts: "This has to be one of the sickest videos I have seen lately, and I am utterly convinced that if the one they are being led and moved by is of God the Father in Heaven, then I am destined to Hell without doubt, for whatever spirit was motivating those in this video literally made my skin crawl!"

 2010/1/22 21:30Profile









 Re: Andrew Strom and Prophetic Movement

I sent Andrews' article to a local church who endorses Morningstar, Bob jones, the Bakers. This was the reply from the Pastor's wife.

Thanks for the heads-up, I appreciate the info.
When the Holy Spirit moves it always interrupts our plans and rarely looks like we'd think it would. Drunks look funny, crazy, sometimes they drool, and they're often rude. That's what they were called in Acts 2, drunk. Many were offended. I'm wondering how long David needed to repent before God would use him again? A murderer and adulterer? God's grace seems to be too good for most of the church to believe. There are always consequences for our sin but His forgiveness is immediate to the point He forgets. We're told to be like Him. Granted, not blind, but quick to forgive and forget (if we're to be like Him). David continued on as King even when he caused the deaths of 70,000 of God's people. God always looks beyond the action to the heart. It's frustrating to many, but I'm so glad He sees the intentions of our hearts. Our actions can be very contradictory. Romans 7 speaks about this. The things I want to do I don't do, the things I don't want to do, I do. We know the only One who can save us from these bodies of sin and death...Jesus.

While the Apostles were fighting among themselves for position they were also doing wonderful healings and even miracles. The 70 that went out? We don't have that much info about them but it's a fair guess that they too, struggled w/sin. That the Apostles could move in such power with such immature and at times sinful hearts is amazing isn't it? He doesn't remove His gifts from us when we blow it. Our part is to repent and turn to Him again, going up higher. His gifts are so kind. I love Him and won't reject them based on fear, accusation or unforgiveness. I won't reject a brother who repents. How could I when I too, am a sinner saved by grace?

 2010/1/23 1:05









 Re:

Judah, thank you. reading the pastor's wife's letter, i say this: Baruch HaShem, Bless the Name of Jesus, let God's Will be done then, if it is not of God, it will fail, if it is of God, then all anyone who fights against it, fights against God, perish that thought.

as far as vulnerable sheep that belong to Messiah Jesus, being decieved by any ministry that is anti-christ, in the Final Analysis, i KNOW, in faith, that God the Father, God the Holy Ghost WILL protect His children......so as they say in the world: "let the chips fall where they may".

in Jesus' love, neil

ps... i know where i stand IN Christ on this whole situation, where the Holy Spirit leads me, but suffice to say, if i was going to Kansas City, it would be to go to see a Royals game.(and on the drive down, listen to my audio Bible, as led, when i get 'hungry')

 2010/1/23 11:40





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