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 chris...just skimming

unpacking this thought of yours further:

Quote:
I believe that there are prophets...and that they can exist and operate in the gift today. However, there are so many people who fancy themselves to be prophets who are truly not.



any REAL prophet would NEVER say, breath, think, "I'm a prophet"...any REAL prophet, who has been graced enough to be taught and counseled by God the Holy Ghost knows to revere/fear Him to such a degree to walk in utter meekness, humility and dependence, such knowledge PRECLUDING arrogant utterances such as 'i have a prophetic ministry'...or 'i'm a prophet'...such darkened minds would do well to consider Uzziah, or to reflect on what happened to the seven sons of Sceva.


Yahweh will testify as to a man or womans gifting IN Christ, In the Body. self testimony is pride soaked, a snare of the destroyer.......good post brother Chris, God bless you beloved, neil

 2010/1/19 15:17
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4527


 Re: chris...just skimming

Hi Neil...

Good points! I was thinking about rephrasing my first sentence just a bit: [i]I believe that there are believers who exist and operate in the gift of prophecy today[/i]. I think that God truly works "all in all" as He sees fit (I Corinthians 12:6).

I agree with you that an apostle or prophet or pastor doesn't have to go about proclaiming what he is (or what he thinks he is). An evangelist is an evangelist because of what he does...and not because he says, "[i]Hi, I'm an evangelist[/i]." I think that you hit the proverbial "nail on the head" when you mentioned Uzziah and the sons of Sceva.

Now, most of the would-be "prophets" that I have encountered haven't specifically proclaimed themselves as such. It seems like they work through the assumptions of men. They utter "prophetic words" and then question the faith or integrity of those who dare to test or question their words. Thus, they announce that they are prophets without actually making an announcement (if that makes sense).

Still, I feel that we need men who are bold to proclaim the things that God has shown them...but while demonstrating the love of Christ as every syllable leaves their mouths. I just would pray that men would know the difference between what is from God and what is from their intellect BEFORE they speak...and make such a distinction if there is any doubt. I suppose that the greatest tragedy is that many of the more sincere modern-day "prophets" just can't seem to make such an inward distinction.

Thank you for your reminder, brother.


_________________
Christopher

 2010/1/19 15:38Profile









 Re: Andrew Strom and Prophetic Movement

"Discernment" ministries do have value, and every Christian should possess it to a degree. Often, our very salvation could depend upon it.

It is with a measure of grief that I must say that I agree with Andrew, and sadly, it needed to be said. Babylon is a mixture, as are lies; and some are mixed ever so subtly with truth. Much of this deception occurred when maniferstations, or EXPERIENCE, overshadowed sound doctrine.

I went to the original Toronto outpouring, where this movement seems to have gathered momentum. People were being led upon the stage with various strange manifestations, and assigned prophetic meanings, and CALLINGS, according to their paticular, and often bizarre contortions. Squawking and flapping, [ and obvious Eagle, you know...] meant you were a prophet...etc., etc. It was a Zoo.

John Arnott, the senior Pastor there, was eventually confronted by John Wimber. Wimber's position was that it was harmful and presumptious, and demanded that Arnott repent. [ The Airport Vineyard was under Wimber's organization. ] Of , course, he did not, and parted company with the Vineyard, and Mike Bickle and others backed Arnott, even to this day.


This launched the modern prophetic carnival we see today, though now it is 3rd generational. I see it as anti-Christ witchcraft, and satanic. It is another spirit, and it is a lying one. I am thankful for Bro. Strom for saying what needed to be said.

I will say that Mike Bickle has a good heart, and desires with his whole heart to please God. He got carried away with the Catholic mystics, believing them to be of a higher plane, though I believe that thay are exactly the same as the rest of the liars and wolves on this list.



"Let no man beguile you away from the simplicity that is in Christ.'





 2010/1/19 15:39
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: chris...just skimming

Quote:

any REAL prophet would NEVER say, breath, think, "I'm a prophet"...



A word of caution brother, but this has no Biblical support to this statement whatsoever. There is no more arrogance in saying "I am a prophet" than saying "I am a teacher" or "I am a pastor." Throughout all of the Scriptures, men of God regularly recognized the ministry God had called them into. Indeed, it may come with utter humility that a man says, "I have a prophetic ministry."


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/1/19 16:22Profile
Fuegodedios
Member



Joined: 2007/2/21
Posts: 220
Richmond, VA

 Re:


One of the things that seem to bother me is that these folks seem to hold a secondary view of the scriptures. It seems that they assert that the Holy Spirit does something he is not called to do which is exalt men. One of the key marks of the Holy Spirits work is to exalt christ,he works repentance and faith by means of regeneration and after all is said and done conforms men to the image of christ which is sanctification. In these so called revivals that seems absent. I see people in these so called revivals taking faith in men and in themselves, desiring gifts only but not the giver and casting the scriptures away for so called prophetic visions and dreams. Jesus becomes a means to an end not the Alpha and Omega and sovereign King that he truly is. I mean whatever happened to the gospel ?


_________________
Demetrius

 2010/1/19 16:26Profile









 BrotherTom

amen to everything you wrote below this post:

Quote:
John Arnott, the senior Pastor there, was eventually confronted by John Wimber. Wimber's position was that it was harmful and presumptious, and demanded that Arnott repent. [ The Airport Vineyard was under Wimber's organization. ] Of , course, he did not, and parted company with the Vineyard, and Mike Bickle and others backed Arnott, even to this day.



all this happened before i confessed Jesus as Messiah, but i just cant understand why this man Arnott was not in submission to Godly leadership...ie John Wimber. was it that the allure of the silver pouring in was too much?...or the excitement of the crowds?


in short don't these men FEAR God? Lord knows i have sin issues that i beseech Christ to help me with, but one thing i try never to do is to PLAY with the Deep Things of God.

you also wrote:

Quote:
This launched the modern prophetic carnival we see today, though now it is 3rd generational. I see it as anti-Christ witchcraft, and satanic. It is another spirit, and it is a lying one. I am thankful for Bro. Strom for saying what needed to be said.



its just terrible, as i've written before, i witnessed the charade of a man, John Scotland, spew forth his "drunk in the spirit" act, and it really stumbled a dear river bed tramp i had brought with me, Gene, he was a dear friend, lived alongside a seasonal creek, knew the Lord, knew the Word, but Lord rest his soul, was harrassed by drug and alcohol addictions..anyway, i was invited up to this house meeting, told i would be "blessed" by an elder brother, and brought Gene with me, and when Scotland laughingly slurred that he blew 'snot' on a poor girl tarrying on the altar, it was too much for Gene, who cursed mightily and stalked out of this meeting, into the night, stumbled and angry.

anyway, i dont like to 'name names', but sometimes this deviltry is too much, and one must speak, there's a 'new kid' on the block, name of John Crowder and the 'sons of thunder', you can youtube the man, but be prepared for a case of 'spiritual indigestion'...its THAT bad.

in Jesus' love, neil

 2010/1/19 16:36









 Jimmy

my dear brother,

i wrote:

Quote:
any REAL prophet would NEVER say, breath, think, "I'm a prophet"...



and you replied:

Quote:
A word of caution brother, but this has no Biblical support to this statement whatsoever.



let me search the Word, i wrote that statement out of the outpouring of my heart.....now ya got me vexed (smile) because i know i'm right (now i'm laughing) Jimmy, it has to be in Scripture........let me get back to you dear friend, neil

 2010/1/19 16:45
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: ccchhhrrriiisss

Quote:
ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
I was thinking about rephrasing my first sentence just a bit: I believe that there are believers who exist and operate in the gift of prophecy today. I think that God truly works "all in all" as He sees fit (I Corinthians 12:6).


Ccchhhrrriiisss,

Actually, your first statement was “more” correct! Just because someone prophesy’s does not mean they are a prophet. Prophets prophesy but not all who prophesy is a prophet!

True prophets remind me of Jesus as a lamb going to the slaughter; he never uttered a word in His defense. His one concern was for His disciples, not Himself; “It’s me you seek, let these others go.”

Amen Bro Neil, “It’s He who God recommends, not he who recommends himself!” (2 Cor 10.18) When the disciples went out, it’s says [b]the Lord worked with them[/b], and confirmed the word they preached with signs following!!! (Mark 16.20)

Which makes one wonder.... if what is being preached today isn’t being confirmed, then what is it exactly that is being preached? This includes every type of church out there.


_________________
Lisa

 2010/1/19 17:23Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1481


 Re: Wilkerson on Prophesy

Hi,

I've been listening in on this discussion for a while. I have only heard about things from afar they have left me wondering. The article by Strom crystalized some things I had felt but been unable to articulate. My brother was involved in the Vineyard movement around the time of the "Toronto Blessing" and never receiving it wondered what was wrong with him. Having learned more about these movements, I realize just much he was in fact blessed by this.

Recently, the Lord has used some teaching here on SI plus personal revelation of Himself that I feel sheds some light on discerning the true from the false. In some of Art Katz' sermons he speaks about the wisdom of the world, the Powers of the Air, and how it was demonstrated through the crucifiction of Jesus Christ. The Powers used raw power, deciept and brutality to Christ on the cross. However, when Jesus rose from the dead a greater power was demonstrated but this was a pure, clean and gentle stength that was not showy. I think the sermon that Art discusses this is entitled "And They Crucified Him." In my own life, the Lord showed me what this means. I tend to understand things intuitively so in a time where I had come to the end of doing things according to my own wil and turned to do what the Father had instructed me, He showed me a glimpse of His character through a vision in my spirit/mind. What He showed me was akin to a white glowing cloud but it was pure, transparent and yet hidden. It was holy and pure but gentle, possessing complete control. Words are hard to accurately express it but this stood against the background of the things I had been viewing that were powerful in a showy manner that are designed to invoke pride and covetousness in their viewers.

In relation to these movements and individuals, when one knows the presence and voice of the Holy Spirit, comparing His life with these it becomes clear where they are from. I realize that this sounds merely mystical but it is one means by which we can test the spirits that are at work.

Another thing the Lord has been teaching me is from John 10 about Jesus being the Good Shepherd and how his sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Then from 1 John, we are instructed that we need to have no one teach us because the Holy Spirit will let us know those who bear the spirit of the antichrist. There have been many times where the Spirit has borne witness that a teacher is not speaking His word, whether claiming to be Spirit filled or not. Some times I could perceive it but other times I had to take it on faith.

On last thought on the matter regarding prophesy, after reading this thread, the Lord brought me to a sermon by David Wilkerson that takes place in about 1990 where he talks about how the Lord warned him and the other pastors of Times Square Church and had them down on Wall Street during Black Friday, 1987. For those who have been reading the forums lately, this is the sermon where he states he is not a prohet but a watchman, stating how he had been very wrong at times in the past. He then tells how before he speaks something he feels prophetic that the Lord has laid on his heart, he seeks to discover the principles in Scripture before sharing them.

The Collapse of New York City
http://media.sermonindex.net/16/SID16983.mp3

 2010/1/19 21:45Profile









 Thank you and bless you sister Lysa!

King Jimmy, there t'is!

2 Cor 10:18

sister Lysa bailed me!

no arguments, i hear what you're saying, but its always seemed right and correct to me, in Messiah, to be very reticent about proclaiming anything about one's own ministry or gifting, etc, whether that ministry be public or private.

For instance, one could say that Evan Roberts public ministry during the Welsh revival was his time in the Sun of God's Grace...true, but that wonderful ministry just broke him, tore him up, albeit for the Kingdom of Heaven, but after the revival, i read, that dear Evan had quite a robust PRIVATE ministry of intercessory prayer....thats the 'meat', truly i tell you, i have a Godly enviousness of Evan being blessed with such a powerful private ministry. I've heard it said and attributed to Leonard Ravenhill, that he believed that one man on his knees for one hour, can change the world.

"Chapter and verse"?

well, i guess probably Mark 11:24

now between you and me Jimmy, (and the hidden of the internet) what do i say about myself, my 'gifting', my 'ministry'? Paul said it for me:

"We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things." 1 Cor 4:13 (ESV)

much love, neil


 2010/1/19 22:36





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