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laholmes
Member



Joined: 2003/7/8
Posts: 58


 Higher Education

I have not been able to enjoy myslf here as much as I would like, due to school starting up for me and having to look for a new job.

However, I wonder how many of you have had any formal theological training? If so, where? If not have you learned by yourself, or from a study with a group? I am preparing to go to seminary (maybe) in a year, and I would like to know more of you alls background.

PS. I realize I wrote "you alls", and I almost changed it, but I am from Oklahoma, so I left it.

 2003/8/25 14:28Profile









 Re: Higher Education

Personally I think higher religous education has done more harm to institutional Christianity than any other one thing. I prefer to think of theological seminaries as theological cemetaries because they produce about as much true life. Where do you find the precendent in scripture for any such education? The only school I'm interested in attending and graduating from is the school of Christ! I know many will likely disagree with me but when you question the scripturalness of a religous profession you will find no leg to stand on. What we see today is in no way whatsoever New Testament christianity. It's just the worlds values brought into the church. We talk on here about why the church has lost it's effectiveness? Well 90% can be attributed to the institutionalization of Christianity and that includes the clerical position. Clerical includes pastors and priests. Gifts are not learned! You either have a gift or you don't. If you have it use it! Christ will perfect it! Clericalism robs Christ of being able to use His body and ultimately usurps His headship. Just my 2 cents!


Kevin

 2003/8/25 16:34
laholmes
Member



Joined: 2003/7/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

krtrek,

Don't hold back. Tell us what you really feel. Actually, I feel the same way, and I guess I was too much of a wimp to say it before. That is why I posed the question, because I wondered if any of you had formal education. I have had a very big debate in my mind for about 5 years now about the importance of seminary. I find some who swear by it, and some who swear at it. Any more thoughts from anyone?

 2003/8/25 16:41Profile









 Re:

Iaholmes,
If you know me I'm not one who hold back! LOL I call it the way I see it. Sometimes I wish I could say things in writing with a little more tack but even if I could it would not change my opinion. I never went to seminary but have gone to a Bible college and threw out most of what I learned. Spiritual education is what is really important and I think the best thing you can do is find a place with like minded believers who want to walk in love and work out the truth together. You will experience more growth in 4 years in this kind of environment tha you would ever get in a seminary.Remember "knowledge puffs up"!

Kevin

 2003/8/25 16:49
PJ
Member



Joined: 2003/7/29
Posts: 76


 Re:

I'm with Ktrek! (for the most part)
I'v always had a desire to serve the Lord and yet I have never thought Bible college to be right for me. Hungry for God after graduation, my mother called Leonard Ravenhill for me to ask if he could recomend any good Bible school. I was surprised when he told her no. He said that every
Bible school he visits he finds kids excited about every subject except the Lord. He advised me to pass on Bible school and just read 2nd Timothy every day for a month.
While I'm sure that there are certain advantages to Bible school, for the most part I have seen them generate little more than swelled heads. It amazes me that the general lay people in today's church think that Bible college is a must for ministry, the danger of this is that lay members who have not attended any such school see themselves as unfit for ministry and leave the brunt of ministry to the "qualified" ministers. The body of Christ is becoming more and more unbalanced.

I am currently in full time ministry, however it was not my education that led me to this posistion, it was my experience. I still have no formal Bible training, but I love and consume the word of God daily. I do not claim to be called into ministry, I just understand the importance of eternal things and have chosen to devote my live to them. I will continue to do this in or out of a full time ministry posistion.
If you can go to Bible school and keep your love and passion for the Lord, then go for it. You can't know the word of God too much, just don't let it become a source of pride. God will judge us by what we did, not the information in our heads.

PJ

 2003/8/25 17:01Profile
sdb
Member



Joined: 2003/7/4
Posts: 129
tucson

 Re: higher ed

Well guys you have hit on a topic that has been of great concern to me lately, I feel that the Lord is calling me deeper to serve in a greater capacity for Him.....I have a tendency to be a more structured learner and have a tendency to look for the way to be printed out for me. So with that I have been looking for a bible school as well, but as you well know the "menu"is endless and the I don't have a clue as to where to start, or to start at all.Maybe I"ll take Ravenhills advice and read second Timothy for a month. Ultimately I know I need training in his word, for myself and not to make an impression on others...but do I step up to the plate and allow the Holy Spirit to do this or continue to look for an "institution" to guide me?...but where could I find good solid biblically based teaching without gaining more of the "flavor of the hose" than of those teaching. I know that Times Square Church has a school but it is based more for younger adults(I just turned 40!!!) and those that feel that they have been called to the mission field, (which is not totally out of the realm for me as of yet) what do you think?

 2003/8/25 18:44Profile
PJ
Member



Joined: 2003/7/29
Posts: 76


 Re:

sdb,

Have you considered home courses? If you're disiplined, this could work well for you. I am currently enrolled in Berean University, this is a home based Bible curriculum for the Assemblies of God. It is required to become credentialed with them. It's the same material that is covered in A/G Bible colleges, you just do the work at home. You can go the cheap route, or you can pay quite abit extra for college credit. I am currently enrolled, however, I am quite the undisiplined student, so I am not getting very far.
Nothing wrong with Bible School as long as you can keep the fire. Just seek the Lord and let him guide you.

PJ

 2003/8/25 19:26Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Higher Education

I am currently attending Lee University's Charlotte Campus, which is affiliated with the Church of God (Clevland, TN), going on to my second semester. I am personally have mixed feelings about Bible School/Seminary. I plan to go all the way with my education. However, I am only doing so for my "circumcision of academia." (as I like to call it) Not because I expect to learn a ton of things about the Lord and the Scriptures that I have not already known. Though, that is not to say I will not learn anything. I would say so far, there are some classes where I actually have learned good things.

Mostly, as far as I can tell, academic learning is mostly for the purpose of giving you the tools to be able to read and write on a higher level. Thus, if "the clergy" start speaking their funny speak, you would be able to know what they said, and be able to act accordingly.

There is some good stuff, but, I suppose it depends what you want to do with that stuff you learn. A lot of academic learning is just so you can be fluent on a number of thoughts.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2003/8/25 20:51Profile
Jason
Member



Joined: 2003/3/15
Posts: 138


 Re: Higher Education

"Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John, and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were marveling, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus" Acts 4:13 (My emphasis).

I have used the "cemetary" description for "seminary" more times than I can count, so I think you can count me with Ktrek. Consider for a moment that today's "biblical" higher education is very much like the system the pharisees and sadducees had in Jesus' day; it was the arrogance and seeming "authority" that their education had given them that led them to reject Jesus:

Matthew 21:23 And when He had come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him as He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing these things, and who gave You this authority?"

Tragically, I have seen this at work many times in the Church today -- so often I see someone with a genuine message from the Lord dismissed because of their lack of "covering" or "credentials." The interesting thing is that historically God has usually worked (with some exceptions) through the uneducated -- those who are simple enough to actually believe what the Bible says.

Now comes the interesting part (I think): I am currently receiving formal training in biblical studies (although not at a seminary but at a secular institution). I am confident that I am in the will of God in so doing. (Edited: I am afraid that this has been misunderstood; please see my post later in the thread for clarification.)

Essentially, what is most important is that we enroll ourselves in the School of Christ -- He is the only Teacher we need. If we think we will gain spiritual understanding through formal training, we have begun the process towards spiritual death.

All formal training can do is provide one with the tools to dig deeper, but if we have not already dug into the Person of Christ, it will be of no benefit at all (one can't dig deeper if one hasn't already started digging). Instead, it will simply inflate our egos. Once we have become permanent students in the School of Christ, he may send us through institutional formal training (for whatever purpose). I, however, think these cases are rather rare and are the exception rather than the rule. Those who are considering formal training must definitely be led of God -- be absolutely certain that it is His will before you move. If in doubt, just dig into the Scriptures, which are far better than any seminary or Bible school (unfortunately, many seminaries and Bible schools spend time everywhere BUT the Bible).

 2003/8/25 21:03Profile









 Re:

For me the only real criteria should be if it is "scriptural" or not? If you can find justification for such a course in God's word persue it. However, I have studied enough of God's word and early church history to know that the only way you can justify it is to revise church history. The plain and simple facts are that what goes by the name of Christ today in institutional Christianity bears no resemblance to what Christ established. What exists is mostly man-made religion with Christ's name attached to it. Soon He will come back and spue it out of His mouth. I'm sorry to be so blunt but if being blunt will wake anyone up to research and investigate things more closely it will be well worth it. In all actuality the institutional Church is built upon Adam and a rejection of Christ and the cross of Christ. It has been this way since the Saducees and Pharisees and is not likely to change soon but it can change for you. You can find the pathway to life but you will never find it in a cemetary.

Kevin

 2003/8/25 22:13





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