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HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Protecting Possessions

[b]Protecting Possessions[/b]

Our adversary, the Devil, stands before the Father continually accusing the brethren of their sin. The blood of Jesus Christ covers us only insomuch as we stand in agreement with Him. If we deny that we have sinned, we are not covered by the blood in that sin. Accordingly, if we deny the Divinity of Christ in any area, it is in that area that Satan is allowed to have full reign. This is why it is essential that we surrender all to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Anything that we do not surrender is subject to attack from the enemy for he knows that we are not covered in that thing by the very fact that we have not given it to the Lord and therefore he can prevail. This can be anything from love of food, to love of family, to love of our freedom.

We have absolutely no hope of standing against the enemy in our own strength. If we think we can, it is because we have been blinded by the enemy. Satan is a spirit. He is invisible and is capable of affecting the minds of all of mankind. We are but mere human beings – our only hope is in Jesus Christ.

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

Our adversary, the devil walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. When we take ourselves out from under the covering of our Lord, we subject ourselves to the wiles of Satan. We put ourselves in agreement with the enemy who is then able to direct our steps. He can lure and control us by that thing that we have not surrendered - that thing that we are holding onto as if it were our own.

Our God is a sovereign God. He is in control of all of our circumstances. All that we have is at His good pleasure and all is truly His. It is when we desire to possess something, or someone, that the problem arises. When we are unwilling to let go of something that the Lord requires, we are in essence saying that we love that thing more than the Lord. We are telling Him that we do not trust that He is watching out for our best interest. We are telling Him we know best. We are telling Him that we would rather be our own god. It is here that we are choosing the creature over the Creator, and it is here that we turn our backs on God, for it is that which we love that will be our master - and we can not serve two masters. This is also where we choose Satan for he is the prince of the world and all that it contains.

 2009/12/20 0:59Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re: Protecting Possessions

Dear HeartSong,

Quote:
The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.


I must express my disagreement with this line of thinking. If I strive to feed my children, does it mean that I am no longer trusting God? If I work to provide for my family, does it mean that I am no longer trusting God? If I study to advance myself, does it mean I am not trusting God for my future? If an evil person comes to do harm to my family and I stand to defend them, does it mean that I am no longer trusting God to do it?

When David fought Goliath to defeat him because of his insults against God, was it because he did not trust God to deal with the situation? When the Jews stood guarding the walls with their swords as they rebuilt Jerusalem, was it because they did not trust God? When Esther and Mordecai went before the king to save the Jews, was it because they had no faith in God? When the Apostles Paul and Barnabas went forth to preach the gospel, was it because they did not trust God to accomplish this?

No! On the contrary, all these actions are/were done by faith and in obedience to God's teaching. Are we not instructed by the Lord in Scripture to do all the things that he commands?

[i]Isa 58:6-9 [color=CC3300]“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and [b]not to turn away from your own flesh and blood[/b]? Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color]

1Ti 5:8 [color=CC3300]If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.[/color]

Isa 1:17 [color=CC3300]"learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."[/color]

Pr 31:8-9 [color=CC3300]“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."[/color]

Jas 2:14-17 [color=CC3300]"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."[/color][/i]

I'm sorry to contradict you HeartSong, but your concept of having faith in God is simply not Biblical, and that short dialogue with God that you presented is a product of your imagination. God is not interested in drama (fasting, burnt offerings, phylacteries, etc.), he wants living faith proven by active obedience.

Our faith is proven by our action. Unless specifically directed by God otherwise, lack of action by a Christian when such action is clearly needed to help others is a sign of dead faith (Jas 2:17).

 2009/12/20 2:15Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Dear Leo_Grace & HeartSong,

A very thought provoking thread. When I read the first post to my husband he did not agree. as Leo did not. He pointed out that we installed deadbolts on our doors, not because we did not trust God but to be prudent. God gave us the wisdom to know we should not tempt Him. We live in a neighborhood full of drug users. A door that was so unprotected would be an open invitation. We are aware that if they truly wanted inside they would break a window. We do what we are allowed to do and trust God for all. We feel He provided the means of buying and installing those deadbolts, it was not through our own strength.

It is marvelous how well He cares for us, of course, to the worldly people we appear poverty stricken. That makes me smile, for I know how rich we are in Jesus. Praise His wonderful Name.

white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/12/20 9:08Profile









 Re: Protecting Possessions

Well for one thing I don't believe that Satan is standing before God accusing anyone, remember he was kicked out of heaven to whom Jesus saw during His ministry on earth. Satan has been defeated and now Jesus is LORD both in heaven and earth. Satan is a pawn in the Masters hand. Your giving way to much credit to Satan, he has less power after the cross than he did before. Man's heart is a wicked thing, and in that heart is all the capabilities of awful things and Satan's job is to tempt man. The evil in this world does not come from Satan as many have come to believe, it all comes from the wicked heart of man. Satan doesn't cause men to do anything unless they are demon possessed.

Quote:
We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

This is not true. He does not leave us to our own devices. When I was sinner I wasn't left to my own devices, He came and spoke peace to my soul and saved me, HOW MUCH MORE now that I am saved? No, He doesn't leave us to our own devices. For whom the LORD loveth He chaseneth and scourgeth every son whom He receives.

If my child does something wrong, do I let him continue on his way? A thousand NO's. If I love him I'll correct him so that he won't be wayward. If I don't love him I'll let him be and he'll grow up hating me for not correcting him.

 2009/12/20 9:40
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re: Protecting Possessions

This is a true story that I thought I should post in relation to the thoughts on this thread. It happened about 20 years ago:

[i]A middle-aged Christian named Danny belonged to a large church that he attended with many other fellow Christians on a regular basis. At the end of each Sunday service, Danny, together with dozens of his brothers in the church, would ride the public bus, Bibles in hand, for the ride home. Danny was a small man, short of stature and scrawny, and his brothers from the church were relatively bigger and well-built physically.

One Sunday, on the bus ride home from church, a non-believer took the same bus and started picking on little Danny. The bully insulted and derided Danny verbally, punched his thighs, slapped him in the back of his head a few times, all the while making fun of his Protestant faith. Danny took in all of this abuse without fighting back. He knew that as a Christian he was to exercise forbearance and humility in the face of an attack on his person. Danny did not hate the bully for the man was not of the faith, and was acting out of ignorance. What did disturb Danny immensely was the fact that there were dozens of able-bodied Christian "brothers" with him on that bus who wouldn't lift a finger to help him. Some of them simply averted their gaze while others (he found out later) prayed that God would intervene in Danny's behalf while they themselves did nothing.

Danny was deeply impacted by the event, not by what the bully did, but by what his "brothers" did not do. Danny was extremely disappointed that so many Christians on the bus, who openly professed a new life in Christ, were unwilling, when the opportunity arose, to "lay down their lives for their friend" (Jn 15:13). Danny said that if it was someone else being attacked, he would have gladly given his life in defense of that friend.[/i]

He shared this experience with a Christian leader who then shared it with us.

We are called to be the salt and the light of the earth -- to bring glory to God that others may praise him and draw near. When we fail to act, the salt has lost its saltiness... (Mt 5:13-16)

 2009/12/20 10:56Profile









 Re:

We could say the same thing about Stephen, where were the other brothers that could have stepped in and took Stephens stoning? Maybe Danny was to be beat up and God had the other Christians in prayer for Danny. Even though they didn't physically do anything, but they were praying for him. Maybe they wanted to do something and were being refrained by the LORD to intervene. I've been in that situation many a times and was held back, with the voice of God saying, "leave it to Me".

Danny's light shone that day when he didn't respond to this guy beating him up. That spoke volumes to that man. Even though that information is hidden from the story, we don't know what kind of impact it had on him. He might be a believer today because of the Christ that expressed Himself through Danny in that hour on the bus.

 2009/12/20 11:37
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Dear DT,

I acknowledge the possibility (though I think it unlikely) of your interpretation of the event. It is possible that God instructed those dozens of able-bodied Christians to just sit still and let Danny be beat up.

However, in the face of the following clear commands by Christ himself:

[i]Jn 13:34-35 [color=CC3300]“A new command I give you: Love one another. [b]As I have loved you, so you must love one another[/b]. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”[/color]

Jn 14:15 [color=CC3300]“If you love me, you will obey what I command."[/color]

Jn 15:12-14 [color=CC3300][b]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends[/b]. You are my friends if you do what I command."[/color][/i]

Is it right to just ignore these commands of Jesus, and instead of taking immediate action, to pray for other commands?

 2009/12/20 11:55Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Leo

These brothers in Christ could just as easily stood up and placed themselves in the path of this attacker, shielding Danny and allowing the blows to fall upon themselves with out ever fighting back and I believe they would have demonstrated their love for both Jesus and their brother by doing so??

Just a thought
God bless
maryjane

 2009/12/20 12:11Profile









 Re:

I realize your intention of posting that true story, so I don't want to take that away.

What do you think could have been done?

I know that If I was Danny I would have taken it because I have been beat up several times and I just took it. I hope you understand the angle to which I am coming at this. I am not short like Danny, I am tall over 6 feet, but when someone is hitting me, like Danny I just let them hit me. Whether there be Christians or not, I wouldn't be looking at them for my help. Our help cometh from the LORD.

I can and will accept Danny's and yours interpretation of this story. I was just sharing mine.

Thanks for sharing it.

8-)

 2009/12/20 13:01
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Dear MaryJane,

You are right. Maybe it would have been unnecessary to take any blows at all. Bullies are basically cowards who pick on the weak because they cannot defend themselves. If even one or two of these "brothers" had stood up in Danny's defense, I believe the beating would have ended without need for further action.

It was their willingness to defend Danny that was the issue here. If they had all simply stood up in protest (dozens of them), that bully would have left the bus with a palpable respect for Christian "brotherhood".

In Christ,
Leo

Edit: P.S. thank you for sharing too, DT.

 2009/12/20 13:05Profile





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