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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


ADisciple wrote:

Quote:


Why do you limit this to nations where Christians are persecuted?




Great question. I will try to explain it better then my last one.

I limit to these nations because in non-persecuted nations, preaching the gospel (for the most part) is not hindered. If the laws of the nation state do not contradict or compromise God's, then we are to obey those nation state's laws.

For example, if universities in America wants someone to registar in order to be able to preach, then register. If this registry was being used to create a list of Christians to persecute them or harm them, then do not register.

We are always called to obey the laws of the land as long as those laws are not against the Lord and His will.


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/12/9 17:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:
John Bunyan did knowingly break the law. He decided to preach in an area where he was required to have a national license that he refused to get.

So, he was someone like Jesse Morrell!

 2009/12/11 7:31
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi DeepThinker...

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:
Quote:
John Bunyan did knowingly break the law. He decided to preach in an area where he was required to have a national license that he refused to get.

So, he was someone like Jesse Morrell!


Actually, I was trying to contrast this. John Bunyan was arrested for not carrying a national license [i]to preach[/i]. Jesse was arrested for not registering as [i]a visitor[/i] on a university campus. It didn't matter to the university if he was a Christian open air preacher, a Muslim cleric, a political activist, or an entertainer -- he simply didn't register as a visitor. If he had registered as a visitor, the school would not only have allowed him to share -- but those same officers who were sent to [i]arrest[/i] him would have been present to [i]protect[/i] him.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/12/11 11:47Profile









 Re:


Chris, your explanation still sounds like Jesse did the same thing Bunyan did. Refused to get registered or get a license to preach. Sorry to stretch this further. I'll stop.

 2009/12/11 12:04
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Quote:
John Bunyan was arrested for not carrying a national license to preach.



I'm not sure in the case of John Bunyan what were conditions for carrying a licence to preach.If that meant conformity to the Anglican church of that time, he could not have done that with a good conscience. Even the idea of having a national licence is ridiculous. The authority to preach comes from God not the government.


_________________
Redi

 2009/12/11 12:13Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Bunyan was fighting against suppression of his authority to preach given by God. Morrell was fighting for the right to trespass someone else's property without permission. Big difference. It wasn't his preaching that was in question, it was his unpermitted presence.

BTW, GeorgeFox was one of those IDs used to propagate Jesse Morrell's doctrines here. It could actually be Jesse's account (again).

 2009/12/11 12:30Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi DeepThinker...

Quote:

DeepThinker wrote:

Chris, your explanation still sounds like Jesse did the same thing Bunyan did. Refused to get registered or get a license to preach. Sorry to stretch this further. I'll stop.


John Bunyan was arrested because he wasn't licensed by the state to preach. His arrest had to do with the content of his words.

Jesse Morrell was arrested because he neglected to register as a visitor. It had NOTHING to do with the Word of God, his message, Christianity or needing a "license."

In fact, Jesse went back to that school, registered as a campus visitor, and preached without much incident.

I spoke via telephone with the Director of the Office of Information at Alabama A&M (to make sure of the school's information). The school did not have Jesse arrested based upon the content of his messages, or that he was preaching from a Christian Bible or because he wasn't a "licensed" preacher. Someone called and complained about him and the police said that he never registered as a visitor even though there are large signs throughout the campus that state that visitors must register.

The campus police would have arrested ANYONE for making a scene and having neglected to sign up as a visitor to campus (regardless of who they were or what they were doing). After Jesse returned and signed up as a visitor, he freely preached whatever he wanted (regardless of whether a person complained or not). The campus police were on hand to protect Jesse's right to do so.

John Bunyan did not have such a right. He couldn't sign up as a visitor to that district and preach. Since he wasn't licensed by the authorized State Church, Bunyan was prohibited to preach the Gospel. At that time in England, a person needed a national license (complete with the oath to the King, to the state Church and allegiance to its sectarian doctrinal views) in order to preach about Jesus almost everywhere in the country. There was no such thing as "free speech." A person couldn't sign up as a visitor and preach as he wanted and what he wanted (even with a clear conscience).

I hope this makes the contrast a little more clear.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/12/11 12:55Profile





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