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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Questions on Defending Others

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 Re: Miccah

IglueAsp, are you looking for Godly council, or do you want the opinions of men, or are you just wanting to find like minded individuals that will agree with your position? I truly am confused on to what your intentions are.

Miccah, I don't understand why you are confused about my intentions. I've restated my intentions throughout the thread. For example:
Here are some questions about how we can apply the command to love our neighbor as ourselves.
I think we should know whether defending the unborn is loving our neighbor as ourselves or not.
I hope you will be patient with the number of questions I have. I simply see getting to the bottom of these questions as being the most important goal of my studying this matter.
I'm only trying to sift through people's objections.
...I [was] just asking questions. I didn't mean to do anymore than just discuss whether it is right or wrong and deal with various objections. My intention has not been to promote anything except understanding the truth.
I think it is important to understand whether people in general should defend the born and unborn EQUALLY or not. If not, there must be some great reason for the difference.
For clarification: I have not been promoting using violence against abortionists as some people have assumed.
I'm just asking a bunch of questions because I don't have all the answers.

Now what is so complicated about wanting to know whether something is right or wrong? It is one of the most basic human needs. It is no more complicated than if I had asked what kind of diet I should nourish myself with, or how much sleep I should get.

You seem to hold to a "force IS allowed" defense for protecting the unborn.

You seem to either not trust me or to not retain much after reading my posts. I've specifically stated (I think more than once?) that I am not "holding to" or "promoting" anything. In examining any issue of disagreement it is normal to reason through both sides. I've been the only one reasoning through the one side so it may seem as if my intention is solely to promote that side. That is why I've restated my intentions often and explained that I am not trying to be one-sided. I'm just stuck on "my" side until someone else is willing to reason through both sides of the issue without partiality, fear, etc.
I am trying to figure out where in scripture you are getting the idea that using force for protecting the unborn is allowed.

We are supposed to love our neighbor as ourselves. Is defending born children but not defending unborn children loving your neighbor as yourself? How could I make the question any more simple? It is not a trick question. I am not trying to draft you into a militia group. It's just an honest question that deserves some serious and unbiased attention. In fact, now that I think about it, if the mind that God gave me did not demand a satisfactory answer to this question, I would need to get my head checked.

The quickest way to get me to shut up, is to quote some scripture, and show me what our Lord said on this matter.

haha, why would I want you to shut up? Please don't think that I've rejected all possibility that you are a rational human being. I may have disagreed with much of what you said but so what? The fact that we disagree makes our communication worthwhile so long as we are both interested in learning the truth. It means at least one of us will learn something eventually. I'd be happy to learn from you the answers to my questions if you truly have them.

Now that I've hopefully cleared up any confusion about my intentions, I believe I left you with with quite a few questions in my last post which you haven't addressed. It's fine if you don't know. I don't know the answer to a lot of my own questions.

Instead of agreeing or disagreeing with me you asked whether Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John had ever recorded Jesus as having commanded people to use force to defend the unborn. I didn't see how that was relevant to our discussion up to this point so I asked "why?" - Did you mean to suggest that we are only supposed to obey specifically detailed commands of the Lord? That we are not supposed to extrapolate deeper principles of motive and behavior in order to apply them to a million situations that Jesus never mentioned?

Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. So is defending the unborn loving our neighbor as ourselves? If not, then how could it be any different with defending children who are already born?

 2009/12/6 15:57

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1563
Scotland, UK


A short story of what happened.

I was out in my neighbourhood praying and walking. When nearing my house I hear the sound of a fight. As I approach I can see people looking out of there windows, as well as some men viewing two woman fist fighting one of the men watching was the boyfriend to the one of the woman.

As I got near another man was standing watching the fight, I asked him who it was and he told there names and then proceeded to tell me one of them was 3 months pregnant. I looked over at the pregnant womans boyfriend who was doing nothing but watching the fight, I stated to him she is pregnant and he shrugged his shoulders.

Without any thought or fear I walked into the middle of the fight and took hold of the woman who was pregnant and was getting a beating and gathered her into my chest. I then turned around to get away from the blows that the other woman was still regiening down on her.

With my other hand I held her back and said very frimly to her that this woman is pregnant and the fight needs to stop her reply was "I was only hitting here head"

I got her away from the scene and into my house where my wife cleaned up her face, from there we got her to the hospital for a check up.

This was me defending a unborn child there was a risk to myself as the men watching could have turned on me, I didn't care I was going to stop it even if I was going to take a beating in the process.

Was I right or was I wrong?

By the way it was a boy and she named him Carl.

Colin Murray

 2009/12/9 6:35Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4533


Hi murrcolr...

Wow, I experienced something similar when I was a teenager!

I think that what you did was right in the sight of God. In addition, what you did was not [i]illegal[/i] (as what would be true of a person who injured or killed an abortionist).


murrcolr wrote:

By the way it was a boy and she named him Carl.

How wonderful!



 2009/12/9 11:49Profile


I mistakenly started a thread rather than a response to this one. anyway, it isn't a bad one.

His grace is down.


 2009/12/9 15:35

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