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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

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Jdl
Member



Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

Hey everyone...I'm a bit confused on this passage from Paul...verse 7 says "to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life"...what exactly does he mean by that if eternal life can only be had through faith in Jesus? I know in chapter 3 he mentions faith in Christ as our reconciliation with God, but what does he mean about the aforementioned verses?
Also, this one I have struggled with for a while...Jesus says, in Luke 13:24, to strive/agonize through the narrow door...I'm not sure where the balance is between agonizing and a simple rest of faith in Christ...I always used to be afraid of trusting in Christ because I would always think "well, did I agonize enough?"...ya know? Any thoughts on these? Thanks guys


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James

 2009/10/29 17:48Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re: Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

This is a very misinterpreted passage even among Christians.

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

God bless,
-Eli


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Eli Brayley

 2009/10/29 18:15Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

Eli_Barnabas wrote:
This is a very misinterpreted passage even among Christians.

In Romans 2 Paul is simply laying out the righteous judgment of God, or how the law of God works, and how God will judge men by the law. He is not explaining how sinners are saved, but just how the law works on judgment day. If you do good you will be accepted, and if you do evil you will be condemned. That's a fact of law. Later in chapter 3 he explains how there is no one that does good and moves on to tell us about "the righteousness of God apart from the law". Sinners are saved from the wrath of God by being justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Read chapters 2-3 again and you'll see now what I mean.

God bless,
-Eli



Very helpful. :-)


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/10/29 18:21Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

Jdl: Remember that originally Paul's letter to the Romans was not written as chapter and verse. These were added to make it easier for us to find things. To get the point of Romans 2:6-8, go back to Romans 1:18 or so and read through nonstop to Romans 2:29. Paul talks first about the Gentiles and the level of spiritual and moral depravity that was existent among them. Then he addresses the Jews in chapter 2. Verses 6-8 are, in context, making the point that God is going to judge each man individually according to his works and that there is no special favor granted by God to the Jews when it comes to judgment. Later in chapter 3 verse 9 he gets to the point that what he had written up to this point was meant to lead to the conclusion that all men, both Jew and Gentile, were under sin.

Again, Luke 13:24 must be read in the context of Jesus teaching. He was here answering the question of, "are there few that will enter in?" Jesus said to strive to enter the narrow gate, because there are many who will say we were with you, ate and drank with you, heard you teach, but He will say to them I never knew you. Many today are saying, "Lord, we have been to church for years and heard your words. We have been around you, and He will say depart, I never knew you. Why? Because they did not come in by the narrow gate but sought some other way.

Don't be afraid to trust in Christ. Who else is there who can trusted like He can? God never asked you to meet a certain level on the "agony-o-meter" before you qualify. There are many who go through painful mock crucifictions, crawl through glass, etc, etc, in some attempt to "suffer enough" that God will be appeased. It is self effort and leads only to pain and dissapointment as well as opening the door for the enemy to have a hay day with them. No agony required. Only repentance and acceptance of Christ as your ONLY sacrifice for sin.


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Travis

 2009/10/29 18:24Profile
anonymity
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Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 392


 Re:

I believe Paul is here laying a prescription for salvation. However, you have to read what he says here in context to his whole epistle. He says salvation is by faith and not works and of course will not contradict himself. In this specific statement by Paul he just did not lay out the whole of what he was saying.

He was basically saying that you must do these works to be saved. Yet, it is not these works that save you, but are acts of faith. One must have faith to be saved therefore one must act in faith to be saved faith must be activated.

If you truly have faith you will truly have works as a result and corresponding.

 2009/10/29 18:30Profile
Leo_Grace
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Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re: Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

Regarding Luke 13:24, the NIV has it as:

Lk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

So the "strive" in KJV actually means "make every effort", and not "agonize" or suffer things. It is an encouragement to persevere.

 2009/10/29 19:58Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Hey guys, a little help on Romans 2:6-8

Quote:
Jdl wrote:
Hey everyone...I'm a bit confused on this passage from Paul...verse 7 says "to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life"...what exactly does he mean by that if eternal life can only be had through faith in Jesus? I know in chapter 3 he mentions faith in Christ as our reconciliation with God, but what does he mean about the aforementioned verses?

[b]Romans 2:6[/b] [color=660000]who will render to each one according to his deeds.[/color]
You yourself are laying up wrath upon wrath for yourself on the day of judgment, which will be revealed at a time that is fixed and certain [in God's mind].

[b]:7[/b] [color=660000]To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:[/color]
They who do such in this verse are meeting the criteria of election which is not contrary to salvation. The criteria are in well doing, which is the obedience of repentance & faith in Christ; in doing these they seek them. These are our reasonable service. Luke 17:10

[b]:8[/b] [color=660000]But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath...[/color]
They should be fearful of persisting in the habit of obeying unrighteousness but obey the truth. If they they do not begin to obey the truth, the thing which they should fear is indignation and wrath

Quote:
Also, this one I have struggled with for a while...Jesus says, in Luke 13:24, to strive/agonize through the narrow door...I'm not sure where the balance is between agonizing and a simple rest of faith in Christ...

The striving here is the same as the word "fight in [b]1Tim 6:12[/b] [color=660000]Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you are also called, and have professed a good profession before many witnesses.[/color]

The point is that we have a part to play in our relationship with Jesus (eternal life [John 17:3]).

Quote:
I always used to be afraid of trusting in Christ because I would always think "well, did I agonize enough?"...ya know? Any thoughts on these? Thanks guys

Think of what you said to be equal to this:
I always used to be afraid of Getting married to the one I love who also loves me; I would always think "well, did I agonize enough?

 2009/10/29 20:12Profile
Jdl
Member



Joined: 2009/9/21
Posts: 66


 Re:

Hi everyone...thanks for the replies, they have been helpful...I guess I'm still having trouble with reconciling striving and trusting/resting...For a while there I used to think that I couldn't do ANYTHING except seek after God for my salvation...in fact, a few months ago I feared even going to get a haircut or baseball game with my father because I thought God would strike me down and tell me "You should have used that time to seek me and find me"...I think that type of thinking somehow caused seeds of doubt to be planted about God...I guess now I'm confused about how to live my life...I feel that anytime I'm not on my knees in prayer seeking salvation or reading the Bible or reading apologetics to get a firm grip on faith in God, then it is time being wasted...how do I reconcile seeking and striving with actually just the nuances and pleasures of living (spending time with family, friends, etc...i think maybe i have a distorted image of God perhaps


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James

 2009/11/2 17:34Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Jdl,

Remember what Jesus taught us: "love your neighbor." He did not teach us "love your navel."

I wasted so much time in college being "super spiritual" when I could have been serving others. I don't want to see others make the same mistake.

Is that to say that Bible study and prayer are not important? By no means, but they must be viewed in harmony with the rest of our Lord's teaching regarding the Christian life.

Rest in Christ's finished saving work on the cross, then go forth and bring others into that rest.

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/11/2 18:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Remember what Jesus taught us: "love your neighbor." He did not teach us "love your navel."

Gotta love those Navels..........Navel Oranges!

 2009/11/2 21:48





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