| need advice on correcting|
I have a problem, mainly due to my delivery or mannerisms or something but here's the senario.
I will hear my pastor preach, and during the sermon he says something that I really don't agree with, and I think of scriptures that totally refute what he is saying.
Some times they are non escentials so I let it go in my mind but other times I wrestle over whether to call him on it..
At this point you may think im one of those guys that are divisive and a trouble maker.
So Im going to give you three examples that really bothered me to the point of saying something to him, but my goal is to do it correctly and in a Godly manner, I need to learn from this and not just be a church hopper or not learn from this..
#1, He was pushing "The Shack" I did talk to him and wrote a position paper, it didn't go well, he would never use scripture to back up how he felt, he has a more humaninst slant in life only conscerned with how people are helped... He finally got angry with me and said some not so nice things on e-mail....I let it go.
#2, He during a sermon talked about trying to start a new church where he was from and the district superintendant or whoever stood in his way, and he made the comment he would kick someones teeth in if they got in his way...
That really bothered me in so many ways... I talked to him about that too...he said he didn't mean it in a violent way but that if someone is in God's way, watch out.... he never made a public correction, with repercussions that are still lasting.....
#3 He said we need to have a spirit led church,
Ok good, that's good. but then said that to have a spirit led church we must listen to what Peter Drucker says about business, if it isnt working then we must get rid of it. then he proceeded to cancel sunday school for children...
I called him on that too, but no response yet for a week....
How would anybody try to correct a pastor into the right direction, in a Godly, and in the right spirit of reconcilliation?
No body is perfect, I have made mistakes too, but when brought to my attention I tried to correct them.
Im about out of this church, but I need to make sure I finish what im supposed to do and not just run to another church that I will over time find some problems there too...
I am certain the Lord is trying to teach me how to follow through in a positive, helpful way when even the best of us misrepresent Christ.
| 2009/10/24 13:09||Profile|
| Re: need advice on correcting|
Pastors are people too and, like the rest of us, are prone to error. So it should always be our first reaction, whenever we detect error in a Pastor's teaching, to be patient and forgiving, particularly when the error does not involve an essential doctrine of the church.
However, the examples you narrated are blatantly wrong. Both in his teachings and in his attitudes, this pastor of yours shows that he is too far removed from the Way of Jesus Christ, that he should not be in a position of leadership in any church.
The kind of rebuke and correction you are hoping to extend lovingly to him will only work when you are dealing with a true man of God, who is led by the Holy Spirit into the Light of the Lord Jesus. In his case, I doubt that it will ever succeed because I discern that he is not a man of God at all.
Pray for God's leading in this --- I do not feel qualified to advise you on what to do, but clearly he must not be allowed to lead others blindly into hell. Pray, and the Spirit of God will lead you to take the right course of action.
| 2009/10/24 14:11||Profile|
| Re: |
Pray for his conversion.
I'm sick and tired of this politically correct garbage that is sending millions of people to hell.
Who's gonna stand up and speak the truth even if it gets them killed?
There will be so much shame at the judgment seat of Christ.
| 2009/10/24 16:43||Profile|
| Re: |
I think that Leo gave you sound advice. And I think that you are doing the right thing in wanting to learn from this and to grow in how you handle the situation.
Wish you well,
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2009/10/24 16:53||Profile|
| Re: need advice on correcting.....correct yourself!|
Poet: with all respect to you, I think you have a warped idea about submission and authority, and are caught up in this clergy laity idea of what the church IS.
In my opinion, what you have been experiencing is simply the grieving of the Holy Spirit within you, as you were confronted with lies and distortion. You have not been called to be indoctrinated by another man, nor to sit on a pew on Sunday and listen to another's discourse about God. You have been called to be conformed to the living image of Christ Jesus, as you submit to the Lord , both the Lord the Spirit, and the Lord on the throne. [ One and same God ]
You have been called to become like Christ, in a very real way. You are responsible as to how you hear and obey the Word of God; no matter if your Pastor has led you into a ditch, or not. Some very, very sincere people are in Hades right now, because they did not question their leaders...[ consider the followers of Joseph Smith...[MORMONS], the Pope, [CATHOLICISM], or Mohammad [ISLAM]...].
It is by your faith, and only your faith, that you will stand, at the end of days before the Lord, to receive your Eternity.will it be with Jesus and his people, or away from him, in the Lake of fire? Whether or not you were deceived by another will not be the question, but the fact that you were, or were not. There will be no "spin" on that day. you will be judged on whether you loved the light, and the Truth, or loved your own way.
A good shepherd will always turn you to Jesus, so you may know Him, and learn to walk with Him, not try to indoctrinate you. This is always at the very heart of faith, and those Hebrews 11 people. You must understand what I am saying. being under a man means nothing. being under Jesus means everything. Yes, their are shepherds the Lord has raised up, but these will not want you to have your faith, or submission in THEM, but will always point you to God, and his Son, so that reality in Jesus will save your soul, and lead you to maturity in Him.
2 Cor. 1...vs. 24..
"Not that we lord it over your faith, but are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm."
When you see control, and professionals that teach outside the Bible, and are annoyed when you come to them for clarity.......it may be time to move on. Learn to walk with Jesus, and ask God to lead you to some real disciples.
| 2009/10/24 17:19|
| Re: |
I agree with Brother Tom. I can't defend a man that pushes an ungodly book, speaks unadvisedly with his lips, and does not recieve a concerned saint that knows something's amiss.
We have been forced to accept less than what the Lord wants for his people, and I couldn't think of sitting under a man that would teach such deception.
He is not a god and it's difficult facing the fact that he is simply in error. I would pray about leaving Brother, especially if he refuses your sincere concern.
You must consider yourself lest you become sympathetic to false doctrine.
This is happening in many places and the Lord is setting aside his remnant.
The Lord will protect you and you will not fall away if you leave.
The strength and walk of my family has increased greatly actually, since we decided to make the move, and we are now free to fellowship with other saints who are just as zealous for God.
May the Lord guide you and grant you wisdom. If you escape from under that cloud, I can guarantee you eyes will be opened and you will begin to see that it was the Lord showing you these things and not your flesh.
| 2009/10/24 18:03||Profile|
| Re: need advice on correcting|
When I started to read your post, I started to think about a offshore survival course I attended last week. Its a course where you are trained to survive from escaping a offshore Oil platform thats burning to a helicopter ditching into the sea. I have attended it many times in the past you must to do it every four years but this time there was a difference to the course.
What was different about the course this time around was that you must focus on surviving yourself. For example you have a smoke hood that will give 10 minutes of breathing in the most toxic of smoke and gas as it has a carbon filter. While making your way to the exit using the smoke hood as the accomadation is filled with smoke you stumble upon a body in the corridor what do you do.
Your natural reaction would be to help the person, but on the course we are told to leave the person. As the smoke hood will only give you 10 minutes of clean air before it stops working.
Getting back to your situation you must think about yourself and your relationship with God, and you must protect it at all cost.
Please don't think that you are going to change the man all that will happen will be that you'll get discouraged and your relationship with God will suffer you might also suffer personel attack from the pulpit and the people in the church might be told to stop speaking to you.
I in the past I have also had to leave a church that I attended since my conversion, I was a member for over 10 years but things started to go wrong. I should have left earlier than I did because it did effect me and my relationship with God. In the end the Pastor started attacking me from the pulpit and the people in the church where told not to talk to me but he did that with everyone that stood up to him. Many who left the church suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and some are no longer going on with God.
So my advice to you is think of yourself and your relationship with God. Write the Pastor a letter telling him excactly why you are leaving and leave.
Edit to add link link to The Signs Of Spiritual Abuse page
[url=http://www.slm.org/trtdigst/articles/abuse.html]The Signs Of Spiritual Abuse[/url]
| 2009/10/24 21:02||Profile|
| Re: |
Thanks for the replys.
Not sure what to do yet.
I'm going to pray about it...
| 2009/10/25 23:15||Profile|
| Re: |
Very good counsel Brother Colin.
We, as a family were ridiculed and others at the church were "lectured" and warned against leaving the congregation. What bondage and fear it puts people under and they are no longer able to think for themselves, let alone the Lord.
Poet, may you be guided by the Holy Spirit that speaks the word of Truth.
There is no question you will endure being shunned and maligned, but it will allow the Lord to show you the content of people's hearts and you will become strong through the persecution.
I pray that you will have great peace in this. I believe most importantly, that Lord has speaking to you for a great length of time on this and that He is urging you to take action.
He looks out for His sheep.
| 2009/10/26 5:14||Profile|
| Re: |
D'you know the #1 reason people do not leave abusive churches? Fear.
Fear of somehow being out of God's will by leaving.
Bro. Colin's illustration resonates with me.
I humbly suggest you flee before your soul becomes so scarred by this place that it takes you forever and a day to detoxify and function in a normal gathering of believers.
IT IS WELL.
I speak from experience.
| 2009/10/26 11:20||Profile|