| Poster | Thread | ThePilgrim
Member
Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 45
| | Re: | |
Lysa wrote:
I don't know the answers that you have asked!
Ah!............Words of Wisdom!
God bless you Lysa
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|  2009/11/8 14:30 | Profile | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
ThePilgrim wrote:
Does not purification come only after death?
I hear lots of people speak of purification and usually they are legalists or cultic.
Did Christ not both cleanse an purify you when you believed?
1. Does not purification come only after death?
No purificiation does not come after death. Death can never and never will be our be saviour.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
2. I hear lots of people speak of purification and usually they are legalists or cultic.
Yes there are a lot of people who get into error when they try and deal with the remainder of sin after conversion.
3. Did Christ not both cleanse an purify you when you believed?
Believed was does it mean for us to believe, what happens.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. So when you believed in Jesus it was counted unto us as righteousness.
We have our sins forgiven and we have been given the right to become the sons of God.
Rom 4:24-25 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification
Justified made righteous
Rom 4:7 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
When you believed you were forgiven, saved from wrath, justified made righteous and been given the power to become the sons of God. Notice how it says [b]been given the power to become the sons of God[/b] It does not say we are the the sons of God but we have been given the power to become. So cleary there is a work to be done after we first believed.
What is this futher work that we have been given the power to that brings into sonship?
Roms 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world) but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What I am trying to establish here is that there is sins that you have commited and there is sin you have because of Adam. So when you believed you were forgiven, saved from wrath, justified made righteous and been [b]given the power to become the sons of God[/b] but not purified of the Sin that entered this earth through Adam.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Why do we need to be purified because of the nature that is in us because of Adam. That why Israel always went far away from God's ordinances because of this inbred sin.
Malachi 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them.
God in Hosea says his people are bent on backsliding.
Hos 11:7 And my people are bent to backsliding from me:
The Cure for the bent that causes us to not to follow God's laws.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
So if what happens when we are baptized into Jesus Christ. By the way this not baptism in water.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
The Old man the one we inherited from Adam the body of sin as Paul called it, is destroyed so we no longer serve sin.
If we no longer serve sin we have another master.
Roms 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness.
In Hebrew tradition a child cannot become a son until he has given up his own rights has fully submited to his Fathers will so it son/servant relationship. Exodus 4:23 Let my son go, that he may serve me. Here we see the relation of being son and servant of the Father.
Don't you see it wohoo wohooo wohoooo. You were given the power to become sons of God, know you have become the servents of God through the Baptism of Christ because you are no longer slaves to sin but servants of God and so become sons of God so you can serve him and his will and have fruits unto Holiness.
_________________
Colin Murray
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| | 2009/11/8 19:11 | Profile | jimp
Member
Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481
| | Re: | | hi, we are saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross... we are sanctified by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross... why do christians start in the spirit and end up in the flesh??? the Knowledge of good and evil[the forbidden fruit instead of the tree of Life..Jesus]... it is not by works of righteousness which we have done ...it is Mercy Jesus...jimp |
| | 2009/11/8 20:54 | Profile | elected
Member
Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK
| | Re: | | Sojourner7:
"I have come to send fire upon the earth,
and how I wish it were already kindled!!
But I have a baptism to be baptized with.
and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!"
I believe the baptism with fire is an indentification with Jesus at his sufferings in gethsemane and the cross. Its an indentification in Christ sufferings and in his agony of soul.
Dear brothers if we really want the baptism of fire i hope that God will make us aware that its not an easy road to tread on, but its a great blessing and privilege to go thru agonies of soul and indentification with his suffering.Its the secret of having a fruitful ministry and sharing in the future glory with Christ.
May we long and desire to be like Christ and follow Christ wherever he leads us without complain.
Shalom,
Redi
Edited
_________________
Redi
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| | 2009/11/9 0:21 | Profile | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
jimp wrote:
hi, we are saved by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross... we are sanctified by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross... why do christians start in the spirit and end up in the flesh??? the Knowledge of good and evil[the forbidden fruit instead of the tree of Life..Jesus]... it is not by works of righteousness which we have done ...it is Mercy Jesus...jimp
"sanctified by faith in the finished work of Jesus"
Before we go to our knees to receive the Baptism of Fire, let me beg of you to see to it that your souls are in harmony with the will and purpose of the Holy Spirit whom you seek. -
William Booth
PURIFYING FAITH by William Booth
Ephesians 3:17-19 -- That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
My Dear Comrades,
You will remember that when I closed my last Letter, I was considering a very interesting part of our subject; namely, that particular act of Faith which purifies the heart. I said something to you then on this question; but I must have another word, because I fancy that it is here that many of my dear people stumble and fail in seeking the Blessing of Purity. They come to the door of full deliverance from Sin; they look inside the Temple of Holiness; they long to be there; but they hesitate to take the step which alone can carry them in.
They cannot, or do not, or will not exercise the Faith that purifies, and so turn away and go back to the unsatisfactory state of sinning and repenting in which they have lived so long. Now,
I feel quite sure that this is often caused by ignorance or mistaken notions; and I would, therefore, very much like to explain a little further what that wonderful Faith is by which the soul enters into the enjoyment of a Full Salvation.
I may have again to pass over some of the ground we have already traveled together. But that cannot be helped. I had better repeat myself a thousand times and be understood, than leave you in doubt as to my meaning.
1. I remark that Purifying Faith is the Faith that has some definite knowledge of the nature of the Blessing desired, and the means by which it is attained. That knowledge may be very imperfect, but it is enough to apprehend the nature of the Purity sought for. This Faith sees that Purity is not merely a passing wave of feeling or a deliverance from temptation. It perceives that it is not a condition of uninterrupted happiness, but a state of Holiness in which the servant of God ceases to grieve the Holy Spirit, obeys the call of duty, and loves Him with all the power he possesses.
Purifying Faith fixes its eye on the Blessing, and says "I want a Pure Heart, I need it; it is the Will of God that I should have it. Christ bought it for me when He died on the Cross. O God, let it be mine."
Has your Faith got as far as that, my Comrades? Do you see what Purity means? If so that is a gratifying attainment. Hold it fast until God bestows the great treasure upon you.
2. Purifying Faith sets the soul longing after the possession of this Treasure. Looking at a thing which you consider valuable and possible, will certainly awaken the desire for its possession. If I am informed of some site of land, or some piece of property, which I could see would be of great service to The Army, the more I think about it, the longer I look at it, the more strongly shall I desire its possession.
It is so with Holiness, my Comrades. If you believe it to be the precious thing it really is, you will consider it, keep it before your mind, turn it round and round, and the more you do so the more you will desire it. Does your Faith compel your attention? Does it make you think? "O Lord, increase our Faith." If you will only keep on looking at it you will come to long after it with earnest desire.
3. Purifying Faith is the Faith that leads the soul to choose the Blessing. It says, "I'll have it if it is for me," and sings:
"Give me the Faith that Jesus had,
The Faith that can great mountains move,
That makes the mournful spirit glad,
The saving Faith that works by Love;
The Faith for which the saints have striven,
The Faith that pulls the fire from Heaven."
Purifying Faith goes further than merely admiring and talking, and longing and praying: it elects to make the experience its own. It says, "Now, Lord, this great deliverance shall be mine. I choose it. If it is to be attained, I'll have it!" We all know how the sinners around us pain our hearts by the way they trifle with Salvation. They say, "Oh, yes, it is good, and it's very kind of Jesus Christ to make it possible for us to be saved. We must have Salvation. We must not be lost. But we won't seek it now." Even so, I am afraid many Soldiers trifle with holiness. They say, "I ought to be holy; I wish I were holy. O Lord, make me holy --but not now." But Purifying Faith chooses the Blessing desired. It says, "I'll begin to seek now with all my heart -- and I'll seek until I find."
4. Purifying Faith compels the surrender of everything that stands in the way of the possession of Holiness. It is willing to pay the price. Oh, how cheerfully people give up pleasant things in order to gain those which they believe to be still more desirable. So here, when men really do see and believe in the worth of Purity, they will be ready to abandon everything which seems likely to hinder them obtaining it.
Oh, my Comrades, have you got thus far? Does your Faith duly value the treasure we are talking about? If not, it cannot be said to be Purifying Faith. If it does, it will cry out.
"Is there a thing beneath the sun,
That strives with Thee my heart to share?
Oh, tear it thence, and reign alone,
Then shall my heart from earth be free
When it has found repose in Thee."
5. Purifying Faith leads the soul to the consecration of all it possesses to the service of its Saviour.
Now, my dear Comrades, has your Faith got as far as this? I am afraid many come close up to this point, and then grow afraid. They shrink from the full consecration, and give up the holy strife. They will say "If I place myself in the hands of God, for Him to do just as He likes with me, who can tell where He may send me, or what He may want me to do?"
For instance, I fancy some of my Soldiers hang back from the fear that God should say to them: You will have to put on the Uniform; or you will have to speak to your relatives about their souls; or you will have to plead with strangers; or you will have to be Officers, or do something else from which their unsanctified hearts turn back; and so they go no further in the search for Purity. But Purifying Faith sees Jesus Christ to be the altogether lovely, His service to be infinitely desirable, and the privilege of joining with Him in the work of saving and blessing men so honorable and desirable that the soul controlled by it leaps forward to lay itself at the Master's feet, willing to be used in any way He thinks best, and so gladly offers a consecration which knows no hesitation, has no reservation, the limits of which being only bounded by its ability.
6. But Purifying Faith goes further than this: it realizes that Holiness has been bought by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and is promised in the unchanging word of God. Do you see that this Treasure of treasures is yours, my Comrades, and that God, having provided and promised it, is now waiting and willing to give it you?
Faith hears God say, "From all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you."
Faith replies, "True, Lord, and I am waiting and
longing for it to be done. It shall be mine."
Faith hears Him say, "I will take away the heart of stone -- the hardness from your heart -- and give you a heart of flesh -- a tender heart," and answers. "Lord, I am sure you will. I trust you to do it now.
The hour of my sanctification is at hand, The Cleansing Spirit is coming to dwell within me. He will make and keep me clean."
7. But Purifying Faith goes further still. it believes that it actually receives the Purity which it seeks. It says not only "God is willing and waiting to save," but "Jesus does sanctify me now."
My Comrades, I want to ask you the question, When shall this Purity come into your hearts? Do you say tomorrow? I answer, "Perhaps it may be tomorrow. I do not know whether it may." Do you say, "When I am dying"? I answer, "Perhaps it may be when you are dying, but I do not know whether it will be possible then." Do you say NOW? I answer "YES, IT CAN BE NOW," for "Now is the accepted time, and Now is the day of Salvation."
Yours affectionately,
William Booth
_________________
Colin Murray
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| | 2009/11/9 8:52 | Profile | ThePilgrim
Member
Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 45
| | Re: | | I am quite surprised that a simple post degenerated in to this farcical jockeying for the pulpit.
What a pile of sanctimonious twaddle!
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| | 2009/11/10 13:40 | Profile | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | 1 Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness.
_________________
Colin Murray
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| | 2009/11/10 15:19 | Profile |
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