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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the real truth about the Second Death?

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jmooney6
Member



Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


 What is the real truth about the Second Death?

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I read something today that made me weep profusely.

I found the website by doing a Google search, looking for any good articles on which Bible translation is the best. I'll admit, I have a few Bibles, each a different translation, because I not only wish to read God's Word, I want to learn it, whether it's a literal translation, or a paraphrase.

http://bible-truths.com/bible.htm

This article is actually quite edifying. So, I went to the front page, looking to see what else I can find. Then I saw the article called "You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!" (Meet the real Jesus many hate.) I could've skipped over it to see what else was there, but instead, a smile cracked on my face. "That's my Jesus!" I thought.

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

This whole article is a really interesting read, actually, that shows that our Lord Jesus wasn't just a stoic religious figure or a "rose-colored glasses" kind of guy nor some wimp with long hair (forgive me if I offended, but Jesus didn't have long hair.) I mean, I knew already that Jesus was quite stern with the Pharisees (to ignore His admonishing the Pharisees and say "Jesus was never that way" is foolishness after all). I knew that Jesus was angry to those who sold and bought in the Temple. But, I never really knew Him intimately as a Person, and for one reason or another, this article made me feel a bit closer to Him, knowing Him a bit more. I truly believe the Holy Spirit led me there for that purpose, to know Him a bit more intimately, to reveal to me things I didn't take the time to realize.

I felt this joy in me growing already, but that isn't what made me weep. After the article itself, Brother Smith talks about 5 huge heresies the church (meaning the modern day Pharisees and Scribes, not us) teaches. The first is the Sinner's Prayer. As a Christian, I want to try to save people, just not knowing how to. In my journey of Bible reading and sermon listening, Paul Washer explains the heresy of the Sinner's Prayer.

The second is the Christian Tithing Law (i.e. giving to the church). I always thought that tithing meant helping to fund true missionary work and giving to the brother or sister who asks.

The third is the mistranslation of II Corinthians 6:2, where the definite article "the" is wrong, rather the indefinite article "a/an" is correct. But as I read that, Brother Smith said something really interesting. "Christ died not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD." Notice Brother Smith emphasized "whole world". What could he possibly mean?

The fourth explains why the Bible isn't entirely literal (i.e. Jesus' parables).

The fifth heresy explain is what causes me to question what I thought. Many view the Lake of Fire as a literal Eternal Hell where people will be tortured by God forever. Now I know that isn't the same God who loves the world so much He sent His only begotten Son! My idea of the Lake of Fire is that God tried everything to save unrepentant sinners, so the only viable option left to do is to destroy both body and soul there (annihilation), hence the term "eternal punishment" (and not "punishing eternally!"). Jesus suffered greatly on the Cross (spiritually, not just physically) for us and experienced God's wrath there. Of course He was resurrected three days later to conquer death once and for all.

Here is the portion of the article that says something completely different and shocking.

Quote:
[5] A LITERAL ETERNAL HELL: Most pastors I've heard do not hesitantly or reluctantly teach that the fate of non-believers is an eternal hell; they rather gloat over the prospect of such a fate. And not to be out-done, many parishioners follow suite and likewise take great joy in telling people like me that I will be spending an eternity in some terrorist hellhole of torture in literal fire, without mercy. How truly sick and disgusting can the human heart get? Just how evil and perverted and demented and deranged can the teachings of Christendom get? Never in the gospel accounts or the history of the early church do we ever encounter anything that even comes close to the evil of this damnable heresy of the Church.

Imagine a doctrine that teaches that the very God Who tells us to "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES" will Himself in Judgment HATE AND TORTURE OUR LOVED ONES?

We are to love our worst enemies, but God will supposedly torture many of our most precious and dearly loved ones. Who hasn’t had an uncle or an aunt or even a brother or sister who did not profess Jesus Christ? We love them dearly whether they are believers or not, but apparently not the god of Christendom. No that god will torture our family members whom we love so dearly, and we are assured that He will torture them for all eternity.

Furthermore we are to be a witness to this travesty of justice. Some totally demented pastors suggest that we will derive PLEASURE FROM THEIR TORTURE. Do you hear what I am saying? Do you understand the gravity of an ETERNITY OF TORTURE IN LITERAL FIRE? If you say, "Yes, yes you do," I will call you a LIAR right to your face. No human can comprehend anything so perverted, demented, deranged and just plain vile wickedness. What kind of an alien monster would torture humans for all eternity in fire?

And not only do billions of believers have no problem with this unscriptural monster, but they actually believe that we should WORSHIP such an alien satanic beast as though he were a god!! Unbelievable!

The God of our Lord Jesus Christ and the God of the Scriptures is going to show the world just how far from the Truths of Scripture this Church has departed. I give simple to understand proof from the Scriptures that utterly destroys this "eternal torture in fire" doctrine, and people despise me for writing the Truths and making them known for all to read. It is a simple matter once someone has done all the research to prove conclusively that there is no such term as "everlasting punishment" in any Greek Manuscript used to translate our modern language Bibles.

The Judgments and Justice of God sets things right; they make the wicked righteous, they shame all the fools into seeking wisdom; they eliminate every vestige of carnality and stupidity; they bring eternal glory to God; they do NOT turn God Himself into an eternal, insane, Terrorist!!

The Christian Hell is a Christian HOAX, and it is the very EPITOME of "DAMNABLE HERESY." And the teaching of this evil and vile doctrine is the greatest sin ever committed in the history of the world. And be forewarned: Teaching that God Almighty will either cause or allow most of humanity to be TORTURED IN LITERAL FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY is the ULTIMATE SIN! There is no greater sin possible. It is the blasphemy of ALL BLASPHEMIES.

The wickedness of the human heart cannot sink one centimeter lower than to believe in his heart that God Almighty, "THE SAVIOUR OF THE WHOLE WORLD, WHOSE MERCY ENDURES FOR ALL AGES," will torture most of humanity in fire for all eternity without mercy or salvation, and then call it "JUSTICE," and calmly state that "HELL… IS… FAIR!"

This unscriptural doctrine is neither fair nor just, as two internationally known pastors have stated. We don’t imprison people for a hundred years for letting their parking meter expire. Neither will God torture anyone for all eternity for telling a lie. This is total insanity. To attribute to God the travesty of torturing most of humanity for all eternity in fire is to accuse God of being a far greater and vile sinner than all of the sins and sinners of the world combined to the power of infinity. If God were to actually do such an insane act He would be the ultimate sinner. Therefore anyone who accuses God of such a demented perversion is himself the ultimate blasphemer, and will be purged in the Lake of Fire, and he:

"…shall by no means come out thence, till he has paid the UTTERMOST FARTHING" [for his gross sin].

"You serpents, you generation of snakes, how can you escape the damnation of Gehenna? (Matt. 5:26 & 23:33).



The more I read, the more I felt God's mercy and love. If this article is based on the truth (and I truly hope it is), the unsaved who will suffer the second death will be called "the least" in His Kingdom, though themselves ultimately be saved! I have a couple of online friends that I couldn't bear to live without in the next life. Also my parents whom I love, many times don't bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit though say they are Christians (they like things like Harry Potter, etc.)

So, fellow Brothers and Sisters, what is the truth about the Second Death? Is it a permanent annihilation of body and spirit, that they no longer exist and are completely and utterly destroyed? Or is the Second Death an extremely painful purification process that kills every last ounce of sin within, not allowing the person being judged to come out until he/she is pure? Will I ultimately be in Heaven with everybody I love, even though my attempts at witnessing seem to fall flat?

In many ways, I feel like I've been awakened to what the second death really is about. That I truly understand what is meant by "the Good News that Jesus preached". Is it the truth, or am I being deceived? I don't wish to be believing any false doctrines. Any help is greatly appreciated.


_________________
Jim

 2009/10/14 1:28Profile









 Re: What is the real truth about the Second Death?

If a person is burned in the lake of fire to purify them of all sin you run into a problem. If you take a wicked man and burn all his "rebellion and sin" out of him you'll have nothing left. The entire man would be consumed. A man is nothing without the new birth. When a man is born again he receives life in his own spirit and receives the Spirit of God to indwell him. This comes by faith in Christ... not by the removal of sin through some burning purification process.

 2009/10/14 1:42
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: What is the real truth about the Second Death?

Quote:
The more I read, the more I felt God's mercy and love. If this article is based on the truth (and I truly hope it is), the unsaved who will suffer the second death will be called "the least" in His Kingdom, though themselves ultimately be saved!




Its not a good way to take some passages or one and make it mean n something 30-40 other passages clearly say it does not mean. Also i am wondering if the fire you mention can ultimate save us, why did Jesus come to earth if there is another way to heaven? Hell is real and eternal.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/14 2:12Profile
jmooney6
Member



Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


 Re:

Now I'm more confused. What is the actual Truth about the Second Death?


_________________
Jim

 2009/10/14 2:18Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

jmooney6 wrote:
Now I'm more confused. What is the actual Truth behind the Second Death?




I could give you my opinion on what i consider to be truth, and recommend many sermons i have heard on the subject, i will post some sermons later, but i advice you to go through the gospels, and just see what Jesus said about hell, i think in Matthew alone Jesus mentions hell in some way more then 20 times. Read it prayerfully and ask God to show you the truth whatever it is.

some sermons i believe to be true to what Jesus said are these,

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIr7JXoZ110]hell is necessary[/url] by tim conway

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8309]the wrath of God[/url] by charles leiter

also i would recommenced this thread that goes through this topic very deeply

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6203&forum=45&54]hell and everlasting punishment[/url]

also you might find more sermons here: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/scr_index.php?act=topicSermons&topic=Hell&page=0]sermons by topic: hell [/url]


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/10/14 2:28Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: 2nd death

Quote:

jmooney6 wrote:
Now I'm more confused. What is the actual Truth behind the Second Death?


The second death is only mentioned specifically four times....

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. [b]This is the second death.[/b]

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: [b]which is the second death.[/b]

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; [b]He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.[/b]

I pray I have finally learned this! (not arguing!) -> Instead of letting people to drag you into theological end times arguments, YOU pray simply like a child prays: [i]to be included in the first resurrection.[/i] (huge grin) No one knows when it will be, so let's just believe the Bible and no one else!!

Re 20:6 [b]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,[/b] but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

God bless you~!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/10/14 8:37Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Dear Jim,

Quote:
Now I'm more confused. What is the actual Truth about the Second Death?


Your confusion will only get worse as long as you keep relying on other people's opinions with regards to the truth of scripture. I could respond to you question about the truth of the second death, but how will you know whether I or the other person is telling you the truth, since we will be giving opposing opinions?

The others have given you good advise, but you have no basis for accepting or rejecting these unless you have fed on the Word yourself. Read your bible! Be saturated with the Word and stop looking for truth outside of Scripture. It takes time but that is the only way to gain true Godly discernment.

In Christ,
Leo

 2009/10/14 11:39Profile





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