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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : Leaving my Church.... going somewhere else...

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4527


 Re:

Hi KingJimmy...

My wife and I prayed for you last night in regard to this situation. We have been in similar situations where the local Church with which we fellowshipped wasn't very "local."

You will continue to remain in our prayers.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2009/10/12 12:12Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Thank you all for your precious thoughts, insights and prayers in regard to this issue. Needless to say, I will be pondering a lot of things. I know I just want to be led of the Lord to wherever I go.

I'm an arminian-evangelical-pentecostal with strong Art Katz-ian convictions. That sorta combo I am not likely to find. Most the churches here are generally some variety/combo of non-denominational/reformed/seeker-friendly/quasi-charismatics. A lot of new churches have started in the last 10 years due to the tremendous growth of the Charlotte/Lake Norman area, which has since died since the economy went south. It's a very strong upper-middle class culture in this area.

I really would like to bring a sense of authentic apostolic Christianity to these churches however possible. I've contemplated starting my own church, but, I don't believe that's the Lord's will for my life right now.


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Jimmy H

 2009/10/12 13:04Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
I am discouraged and frightened by how some of this board can be completely separated from a local church body and somehow think they are obeying God. I do not say this lightly, but, if you are purposefully separated from a local church and are not making effort to join yourself to a local church, you are in sin, and you must repent immediately.



Quote:
I do not say this lightly, but if you are not connected to a local church assembly, and are not making effort to join yourself to one (either through searching or attemping to move to another town), I do not believe you have Scriptural authority to have assurance of your eternal salvation. It is a Scriptural, fundamental mark of true Christianity to be joined to a local assembly of believers.



Taylor, these are very strong statments. Have you really thought that through prayerfully?

May I ask you, please... how do you define a "local church body"?

AD


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Allan Halton

 2009/10/12 13:26Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Taylor, these are very strong statments. Have you really thought that through prayerfully?



Brother,

I have been meditating on these things for sometime, and state them prayerfully and cautiously. If someone can present me good evidence that it is Biblical to be separated from a local church body, then I will retract the statements. But, as far as I know, all Christians in the Scriptures that we know very much about were associated with local churches. However, I did not say that all outside of the church are not saved, but rather I don't believe they can have Biblical assurance of salvation since they are so far removed from New Testament practice.

A local church body is a group of believers and their children who meet together to practice the things Christ commanded, and to perform those things the Apostles describe as taking place in a local church.

From Scripture, we know that there was teaching, song, the Lord's supper, and prayer. There was also leadership through elders and deacons. We should expect to find these things in a true local church.

With care in Christ...


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/10/12 13:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I urge you to not place the blame for this situation on the Lord

No blame has been given to the LORD, it's an expression of care that the LORD has over us. I wasn't pointing the blame at Jesus.
Quote:
In the Scriptures, do we find Christians praying until the Lord "led" them to a suitable local church? From my understanding, they simply joined themselves to a local church. There was no long separation from the local assembly of believers.

In those days there was no denominations that separated them. They were all one, breaking bread from house to house. Since we do have division of so many different denominations it's vital that He has control over where I should go.
Quote:
If I can be of any assistance to you in helping you find a local church, please let me know through PM. I would be glad to help in your search.

Your urgency is appreciated but I am not in sin, and I will wait on the LORD for his leading.

When it's all said and done, we'll be together sitting with Him as He is seated with His Father. Jesus has us exactly where He wants us to be. Don't fret, with all supplication make your requests made known unto God.

Take Care man.

 2009/10/12 14:20









 Re:

Quote:
A local church body is a group of believers and their children who meet together to practice the things Christ commanded, and to perform those things the Apostles describe as taking place in a local church.

If that is true, then we would have no need for this website, nor the call to repentance, nor to pray for a revival IN THE LOCAL CHURCH BODY, 'if' we did all the things mentioned in the above quote.

The more we talk about this the more my heels are dug harder into hearing God speak and His leading. I know His voice and I know His leading, and He has never led me down a wrong path.

Sincerely in Christ

 2009/10/12 14:43
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Taylor,

Thanks for your response.

Quote:
If someone can present me good evidence that it is Biblical to be separated from a local church body, then I will retract the statements.



Of course it isn't biblical to be separated from "a local church body," but what do you do when you can't find a vital church body under the hand of the Holy Spirit?

I hope that your earlier comments didn't put any of the true sheep of God's pasture under condemnation, for there are many these days, MANY, who are agonizing over this very matter, and have felt they could no longer continue to be part of a so-called local church because of the emptiness they experience there week in and week out. Sheep, true sheep... who simply do not hear the Voice of their Shepherd when they go to "church."

And so they leave, and many of them end up walking a solitary walk... not because they are in sin, or rebellious, or self willed... In fact they have a heart for God, and know deeply their need for fellowship, and long for it. The problem is that they simply cannot find "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" when they go "to church."

Quote:
A local church body is a group of believers and their children who meet together to practice the things Christ commanded, and to perform those things the Apostles describe as taking place in a local church.



Quote:
From Scripture, we know that there was teaching, song, the Lord's supper, and prayer. There was also leadership through elders and deacons. We should expect to find these things in a true local church.



That's good, Taylor, as far as it goes. But all too often there is only the outward shell of that, without The Life Himself present.

I hope you are aware, brother, of what is going on in "Christendom" these days... and the implications of it all.

It certainly is "biblical" to find yourself "outside the camp" with the Lord Jesus, "bearing His reproach" (Heb. 13.13,14).

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2009/10/12 14:48Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

AD wrote:

Quote:
And so they leave, and many of them end up walking a solitary walk... not because they are in sin, or rebellious, or self willed... In fact they have a heart for God, and know deeply their need for fellowship, and long for it. The problem is that they simply cannot find "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" when they go "to church."


I totally agree with this. Also I would like to observe that those on this thread who are seeking a local church to be part of all apear have a desire to be part of one and are not wanting to be seperate. This is definitely where Kingjimmy is coming from.


Taylor: I admire your the high position you put the local church, but maybe you are more blessed than others and have a solid church. Could I put to you a question - What would you do if your church (from the leadership) started going away from sound scriptural teaching and based the meetings on extra-biblical 'words'? Would you remain in that church regardless?


_________________
Dave

 2009/10/12 15:33Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Brothers,

Thank you for your responses. I will consider them and seek to bring my convictions more in line with truth if necessary.

If an individual is agonizing over the state of the church and is not presently in a church body while they actively search for one, I understand that. However, sometimes I fear we're separating when we shouldn't. I don't think I'm going too far to assume that there was just "a shell" in Corinth when incest was going on without church discipline. Yet, we separate for lesser sins. Sure, not everyone in the congregation is going to be as fiery as a Leonard Ravenhill or as learned as a Spurgeon. But, don't give up on the Body, get in there and serve and love people.

With care in Christ...


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2009/10/12 15:45Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Personally speaking, from my point of view, if one is not actively looking for a church to attend, one should start one wherever they are at.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/10/12 16:00Profile





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