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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Britain vs Christianity - coming to America unless we stop it now

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Yes and when Jesus took a whip and drove the money changers out He was stating the truth in love . When he rebuked very pointedly the Pharisee' who were rulers He was speaking in love.

Alive to God I don't know if you live in America but In the United States the "People" are the higher power. The Law of our land is the Constitution within it is also the bill of rights.

It is important to keep in mind that the submission to higher powers in America is to participate in the Governmental process. Again in America the people are the higher power elcting representatives to go conduct business and the law of the higher power is to then reelect or elect new representatives to go conduct the business again.

 2009/10/11 10:50


Alive to God I don't know if you live in America but In the United States the "People" are the higher power. The Law of our land is the Constitution within it is also the bill of rights

"Whatsoever a man thinketh, so is he". If you believe we should speak against kings and dignitaries, princes and principalities, you are within your right to do so. The grace of God covers even the rebellious among us. Your not alone, there are thousands of Christians that are just like you, and there are some even on this website, so your among acquaintances.

Alive presented the verses what more can be said?

Were cool 8-)

 2009/10/11 13:04


No thinker, "we are not cool".
You can't seem to see how much you come across as a pharisee.
But thank you for looking over at me and saying that God's grace covers my rebelliousness. Good thing your not like me..right?

I am only responding to you this once. I am not interested in conversing with you because you have demonstrated over and over your pride.
If at a future date you want to be a little more flexible then maybe we can talk.

 2009/10/11 13:45

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3510
This world is not my home anymore.


thingsabove wrote:
No thinker, "we are not cool".
You can't seem to see how much you come across as a pharisee.

WHAT??? DeepThinker a pharisee?? :-( :-o

I would have thought a couple others before I would've thought of DT being a pharisee, but maybe that's just me!

Are you a borderline pharisee, DT? ;-)

God bless us everyone!!!


 2009/10/11 13:58Profile


Deep thinker,

Your a Pharisee? surely not :-) God bless you brother........Frank

 2009/10/11 14:37

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone,

Believe it or not, but it was God Almighty who wooed the people of the United States to vote for President Barack Obama. We must respect God's decision. Speaking against the President is speaking against God, because God put him there.

If I could suggest something:

I believe that the injunctions given in the scriptures about speaking against human dignitaries are there as a reflection of the authority and dignity they are given from God.

Everyone that has authority from God is to be respected, in as much as such respect is in deference to God and an acknowledgement of His ultimate authority over all(John 19:11).

I would disagree in saying that the postion of every king and every Goverment is by the active decree or purposed actions of God(see for instance Luke 4:6). And when we read that God rules in the kingdoms of men, I believe this is to have us understand that God has the final say in every decsion that is made on earth, whether He decides to have His say or not, and that it is His uncontestable right to intervene in any place and time that He chooses, whether He chooses to or not(Ps 135:6 Job 40:8, Is 14:27).

I would agree with those also that would caution us against taking the example of the Lord Jesus, and His speech about rulers as a certain example for ourselves, inasmuch as, was pointed out, the Lord was speaking with the authority of Heaven, and it is nothing to be marvaled at if the King of Heaven should rebuke a lesser, lesser, a much lesser king(Ps 76:12, 107:40).

I hope that at least some of this made sense,

Wish you all well,


Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/10/11 14:38Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2800
Phoenix, Arizona USA


Deep Thinker,

I'm glad you find it humorous, but I cannot. The original post was a call to be concerned about a declining society around us. The church must be concerned because as the church goes so goes society. The only hope of civilization is the church; we must honestly face this question.

When the Body is right and functioning in the purpose of God then society as a whole experiences the blessings that come from God. Not all of society gets saved but God rains on the just and the unjust too.

When the salt has lost its savor it is not a time to sit back and just say that what is happening in society is God's will. It is a time to examine ourselves honestly bearing in mind that the condition of society around us is largely a reflection of the condition of the church. Remember "ye are the light of the world" (Matt 5:14).

I am saddened to see that even those within the church are accepting that the church has only a marginal relevance to modern society. We do not expect, for the most part, to find the Gospel centered in burning conviction that will cause people to go to the ends of the earth, alter the practices of governments, or redirect cultures.

Jesus must live again in His church.

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2009/10/11 16:38Profile


When the salt has lost its savour it is not a time to sit back and just say that what is happening in society is God's will.

I did not say that what is happening in society is God's will. But regarding salt. We have not lost our salt. Since I am of the mind set that all has been fulfilled, the salt was referring to the Jewish nation. However, that is not the topic at hand.

Ron, I really don't know what the trouble is, I agree with your post. I think you misunderstand my words, or at least I am not conveying myself properly. My only concern is that the Church need not involve itself with fighting with flesh and blood. I believe in the supernatural power of God in the midst of God's people. They are a moving force intermingling amongst the world, and with that people are bound to be affected. Not just personally but politically.

Paul in his day met with dignitaries and the like, spoke to them of the good news, some were affected by his message and righteousness blossomed. I remember reading about Tommy Hicks how that God told him to go to the President of Argentina to ask permission to come and hold meetings. The man did not believe in this gospel. I believe he sent him away, but Tommy went back and asked again. I think this time he put God to the test that if he could heal his wife of a cancer of some sort then he'd give his okay. God not only healed her, but that President swung open wide the doors for that man to preach the gospel and they had a revival that some still remember as being mighty.

I am for that brother. I felt the holy Ghost when I was writing that, I think the LORD wants to do that again. It took 3 months of Prayer and Fasting for Tommy to come into that authority in which God invested in him to do. Every 30 days he asked God, "Am I ready" and God said, "No your heart is still black with iniquity".

God bless YOU.

 2009/10/11 21:45


When I read your post Thingsabove, all I could do was just love you.

In my beginnings of being a young believer many moons ago, I would have agreed with you on the accusation of being a Pharisee. I thought that I was right and every one else was wrong. I made the point very clearly. I really thought that I was in the will of God. And to some degree I was, because at some point in time, I tripped and fell and my face met the floor and I met God there. I realized just because I was given a gift didn't make me more than anyone else, in fact we become lessor. "To whom much is given, much is required", therefore, it's expedient that we become nothing in this world so that we can fulfil the law of Christ successfully. Pride will only make things difficult.

I know what Pride is and I hate it. I know what being a Pharisee is and I hate that too. I am thankful that I experienced them both, but I am more thankful that God had mercy on my soul and spared me. I am always taking an inventory of my soul, judging to find out anything that is there that might offend. And I certainly am not going to say that I don't have pride. Maybe I do.

If I have offended you and maybe this pride has surfaced and perhaps the very thing that I hate, that I do has tripped me up. I don't rule anything that anyone might see out, after all, we are our brother's keeper. It was never my intention to put you down, and with that I do apologize for being arrogant, having pride and being a Pharisee.

God bless you brother or/Sister. :-(

 2009/10/11 22:07

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7527


Ok, lets be real blunt here and I hope this is not too political.

Obama appears to be very friendly with the Muslims...but he is also with the gay community.

Can anyone make sense of this?


Sandra Miller

 2009/10/11 22:29Profile

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