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Discussion Forum : Devotional Thoughts : THE BIAS OF DEGENERATION by Oswald Chambers

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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37708
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11



"Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Romans 5:12

The Bible does not say that God punished the human race for one man's sin; but that the disposition of sin, viz., my claim to my right to myself, entered into the human race by one man, and that another Man took on Him the sin of the human race and put it away (Heb. 9:26) - an infinitely profounder revelation. The disposition of sin is not immorality and wrong-doing, but the disposition of self-realization - I am my own god. This disposition may work out in decorous morality or in indecorous immorality, but it has the one basis, my claim to my right to myself. When Our Lord faced men with all the forces of evil in them, and men who were clean living and moral and up right, He did not pay any attention to the moral degradation of the one or to the moral attainment of the other; He looked at something we do not see, viz., the disposition.

Sin is a thing I am born with and I cannot touch it; God touches sin in Redemption. In the Cross of Jesus Christ God redeemed the whole human race from the possibility of damnation through the heredity of sin. God nowhere holds a man responsible for having the heredity of sin. The condemnation is not that I am born with a heredity of sin, but if when I realize Jesus Christ came to deliver me from it, I refuse to let Him do so, from that moment I begin to get the seal of damnation. "And this is the judgment" (the critical moment), "that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light."

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2009/10/5 8:16Profile

 Re: THE BIAS OF DEGENERATION by Oswald Chambers

Ok, so I have an honest question, statement, etc;

It seems that those who do not believe in original sin (Adam's disobedience condemned the entire human race) also hold to the view that the effect of sin (bondage to sin), not the penalty
(the Wrath of God) was the most important thing that God dealt with at the Cross; that if a christian still struggles with certain "sins" they have not really been "saved"...and it is half of a Gospel to admit that person can actually be saved from the Wrath of God and still struggle with sin, etc.

So then followed to its logical conclusion, Oswald Chambers article would be the worst of judgements upon the human race, even worse then being condemned to eternal judgement because of Adam's disobedience. If the effect of sin is the only thing we inherited from Adam, and the worst thing that could happen to a person is to be saddled with a sin nature, then it is entirely unfair and unjust, through no fault of my own, to be born with a nature that is in rebellion to my Creator. The only reason I love darkness is because of another man's disobedience. The only reason I hate the light is because I was born with a nature that hates the light. The only reason I am turned inward and focus on myself is because I was born with a dispostion of sin, again, through no fault of my fair is that?

Why is God not accused of being unjust for this, as He is when discussing the condemnation of the entire human race?

 2009/10/5 11:21

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2674
Nottingham, England


I read this and was going to comment but thought it was better not to.

God bless.

 2009/10/5 11:34Profile

 Re: THE BIAS OF DEGENERATION by Oswald Chambers

It sounds to me like Chambers is stating that all are not lost in their unregenerated state, but that this loss, separation, or damnation only is enforced upon the REJECTION of the Light; the rejection of Jesus as our redeemer.,,,[ Am I missing something here?]
There is another avenue to reject the light; your conscience.
Romans 1 says that professing to be wise, they became fools, in that knowing that creation itself proved Him as Creator, and then continues to say that He at some point "turns them over to a reprobate [ seared] mind".

There is no reference to Jesus here, but condemnation only as their rebellion was manifest.

Jude 1 (King James Version)

Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
"are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. "
We see that unbelief brought them to condemnation, not necessarily added to the revelation of God's truth.
8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

"10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."
Again in Romans, the word implies that their CONSCIENCE was at the heart of conviction, having the law of God written there.
11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Yes, Jesus is and was God in the flesh, but the rejection of Him was written, and is upon the conscience of all men, and not directly predicating the preaching of the Gospel and the salvation of Jesus, and the rejection of it, as the only sentence of eternal condemnation.

Chambers wrote:
"The condemnation is not that I am born with a heredity of sin, but if when I realize Jesus Christ came to deliver me from it, I refuse to let Him do so, from that moment I begin to get the seal of damnation. "And this is the judgment" (the critical moment), "that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light."

Chambers is right, but he makes it sound exclusive, [ condemnation ] and I say that it is not. Rebellion to God's laws and conviction upon my conscience unheeded, or rejected, will bring you under the same sentence. Jesus is the only way to find salvation from it within this era.

Many Satanists, murderers and wicked throughout time have not directly rejected the gospel and the light per se', but yet are never the less rightly damned.

PS: Oswald chambers is my ONLY devotional, and by far my most favorite, which I try to read every day of my life. My argument is a little "hair splitting", but it is just my take on what may be the "bigger picture", but I understand completely how he came to his most scriptural conclusion. I love Oswald!

 2009/10/5 12:25


Oswald defines sin as a disposition of being focused on self...I agree. Sin is a nature, a state of being. He also says that all men are born with this disposition. It is a nature that is in complete opposition to the nature of God, Who is selfless. According to Oswald, we are born with a nature that is in complete rebellion to God. This nature is inherited from our Father Adam. We reject light because of our nature. I think that is why Jesus said that we must be born again.

If we can accept this bit of horrible news which seems to be soley because of the Fall, then why is it so hard to accept the proposition that we also are all condemned and abiding under the wrath of God because of the Fall.

 2009/10/5 13:16

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