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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do Catholics believe they are saved by works?

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hearthetruth wrote:
by BrianMira on 2009/10/22 6:31:36 Where did he go?...pray for him. This is the difference. Last week I was kicked off of a site because I brought up Christ and was threatened on another one for the same reason. I am not leaving them, they are leaving me...sadly. Orthodox, left SI...(well, that profile did), we are not leaving him.

What are you talking about? I, Orthodox, was kicked off. I didn't leave. Here's the email I received:


I have deleted your forum account and ask that you do not re-register. We are a evangelical ministry and do not accept catholic teachings as biblical. So the forums are there not to debate this issue. thank you for your understanding.

Greg Gordon

If Greg is honest, he'll admit that to you all instead of letting you all believe this.

What am I talking about...? Well, I am talking about what seemed to be your deletion of your account, which under the circumstances would have seemed to be your doing.

Whether or not Greg deleted your account, that is his decision, because it is his site. Much like I respected the people who kicked me off of their site. However, my claim about you still holds true, especially, since you re-registered under another name when asked NOT to do so...which produces doubt as to how many other times you have done so...and have tried to justify yourself, not to mention that you are still the same person without the Spirit of Christ.

Although, my request still stands in that I hope and pray that all who have been wasting their time on this thread, will join in prayer for you to break away from the lies in which the romaan catholic church has implanted into many and have subsequently further damned countless to hell.

May God grant you, dear Sir, the Grace to understand that He alone deserves the reward for His suffering and by NO WORKS will anyone enter the Kingdom of God and where Peter, nor Mary, have no more power to hear or answer prayers and thus have no power to make any more decisions since they were buried six feet under less than two thousand years ago, whereas Christ alone is the reward of salvation and is wonderfully received by all of those who repent and trust in Him, as they work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, while walking in the Spirit, which is given when born again; Popes not included!

 2009/10/23 6:08


"Much like I respected the people who kicked me off of their site. However, my claim about you still holds true, especially, since you re-registered under another name when asked NOT to do so...which produces doubt as to how many other times you have done so...and have tried to justify yourself, not to mention that you are still the same person without the Spirit of Christ." brianmira

Amen. He was asked to leave and not set up a new account but did anyway to set 'the record straight.' And after he does this he chimes in with a quick heresy, all while playing nice with those who have a heart for the lost, and playing the victim to everyone else.

Since he chose to set up another account he had the option with PM to show his love and forgiveness but he did not. Instead, he tried to throw Greg under the bus on the forum. Greg and the moderators are very patient men, when they decide to pull the trigger it is absolutely justified.

Jesus told His disciples when He sent them out that if those who will not receive you and the truth you bring, then we are to dust off our feet and pronounce peace unto them. There's a time to let go because there are plenty of other's who want to know the truth of the Gospel. That doesn't mean that we don't love them and it doesn't make us any less Godly. If someone keeps biting the hand trying to help them, then it's time to spare that hand and lend it to another. It is in the enemy's best interest to tie us up with rabbelrousers. Yet we are to pray for them still.

Lysa, your heart is in the right place but I can tell you for the most part as a former catholic, that it is the ignorant pew-sitting catholics that seek the truth, not the arrogant PHD's in catholicism. These are the one's who lord over their knowledge to keep other catholics in bondage. They are the problem, not the solution. They condescend and make people feel like truth is only in the hands of the church and only the 'educated' have it. The person 'Catholic' who was on the forum before verified this by saying that one must be educated in the 'sciences' of the mysteries of God(I'm paraphrasing) who are capable of knowing truth and share it. Church scholarship of the highest honor and only debate on this level, which is why they choose sites like this to sharpen their theological sword and stir the pot.

As far as walter, I agree. The man has jumped the gun so many times that he has little to no credibility, even if he may be correct in some of his 'sleuthing'.

"If Greg is honest, he'll admit that to you all instead of letting you all believe this." ORTHODOX

Not a phrase of a genuine heartfelt poster. This says more about Orthodox than Greg. They castigate others while trying to make a 'smooth' exit for themselves. They have their reward.

These kinds don't need a theology change, they need a heart change. Theology is just a shroud to hide behind.

And by the way.... THEY'LL BE BACK!!!

 2009/10/23 7:36

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC



Jimmy H

 2009/10/23 8:18Profile

 Re: walter

I take that back walter, and apologize, you are not a "neo-pharisee".....nor do you have "ugly" spirit. However, your posts are very hard hearted, what you remind of is of Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, who's learned theology had no helpful, encouraging or comforting word for a truly Godly sufferer.

It's true, search your heart walter. Grace given is a mystery. I praise God He has me in my devotional readings in the Book of Job at this time.

leave, stay, keep your keyboard silent, crank it up, do what you must.

 2009/10/23 8:58

 the poster formerly known as "orthodox", now known as "hearthetruth"

you poor man. I might be the "refuse of the earth", but I try not to play with the Deep Things of God, or fool with His Ministries.

re-consider your ways, as I will quote Paul in describing the game you are playing:

8"But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"

Acts 13:8-10

 2009/10/23 9:04

Joined: 2009/10/15
Posts: 1

 to this post

Mark 12
28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I have to say...I am new to this board and I have not seen very much love going around in this topic. I have seen a lot of judgement and a lot of throwing around condemnation.

Jesus said...this is the most important command. Love Him and love others. Period. If I were lost and happened to come on here and see some of the 'fist slinging' between Christians well, honestly, I would have no desire to know God at all. Most (not all) of you would turn me off...

John 13
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

 2009/10/23 9:14Profile

 Re: the poster formerly known as "orthodox", now known as "hearthetrut

Hi Guys,

I have watched this thread with great saddness. I PMd KingJimmy right at the beginning of this thread ans warned him that this converstaion was a trap, Othodox was not a truth seeker. As an ex Catholic, gloriously saved and liberated by the Lord Jesus Christ who also spent two years debating Catholic theologians, I could see that this converstaion would be fruitless. I wrote this near the beginning of this thread....

"An important point to remember while debating Catholics(and I would not debate Catholics, it tends to be fruitless, its more effective to talk about Jesus and how you know Him persoanlly, then go from there, because Catholics have a head knowledge of Jesus but do not "know," Him) is definition of terms. The word "works," for instance, is a key word and unless you can agree to a defnition up front you will have a messy discussion, it has to start there. The best question, I have found, and it cuts through the clutter, to ask a Catholic is "What do you think Jesus meant when He said that you must be born again." Typically you will hear things like "Baptism," or "First Holy Communion," and so on."

As someone who has a little experience in this situation, I would urge my fellow brothers and sisters not to get drawn into a debate with Catholic apologetics. Also, as someone who has a deep love for Catholics, I would reiterate that you should share about how you know Jesus personally. I once spent 20 minutes with a "staunch," Catholic telling her about my Jesus and how much I loved Him and and how I loved to walk in His presence and how He had gloriously changed my life. At the end of that converstaion, she was very quiet and she said this "I do not know the Jesus that you are talking about." And that is the essence of it.
By the way, I applaud Greg's desicion to remove that particular account. Discrenment has to be exercised in any organisation, and in this particular case, there was no truth seeking . Also orhtodox had started another thread which I believed was designed to instill fear rather than edify..........Frank

 2009/10/23 10:30


Confrontation is a very integral and necessary part of the Gospel, and often it does not SEEM like love, but it is. The light must shine into the darkness, and it must overcome the darkness. The bible speaks of condemnation as being such; "Men loved darkness more than they loved LIGHT. Jesus is the Light of the world. IN THIS SENSE, THERE WOULD BE NO salvation WHATSOEVER, if THE light DID NOT CONFRONT THE DARKNESS! Jesus did it over, and over, and over again, hoping to save more.

I think of John 8: But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


All the teaching and coaxing in all the World from the Creator himself would not have mattered one iota. There was a hardness, a rebellion within them that hated unto death, that Jesus associated with Satan; ...that shut their ears. They just wanted to murder him.

Jesus loves the PEOPLE bound by the devil in Roman Catholicism, Yet he hates the deeds and the teachings of it. There is a difference.

Our defence is not to be explained, or defended, but proclaimed. There is no middle ground for compromise. If you do so, be prepared for a roller coaster journey into an endless maze, and see every Pearl of life you offer be torn and broken, and cast back at you in tones of accusation and slander. It will be, as in this instance, an exercise in futility.

The devil is smarter than you, and capable of outwitting you, but not overcoming your faith. Our response should always be, as Jesus did with satan, "It is written!"...and REBUKE!

"YOU SHALL NOT TEMPT THE LORD YOU GOD!", and this to the Tempter, Satan!

By the way, our convoluted friend was quite brilliant, but, sadly quite lost too. He reminded me of that group of Pharisees in John 8. Jesus loved them, but had to speak the truth. He confronted them with His loving light.

The gospel is about confrontation, as two forces collide, LIFE AND DEATH, and our victory, and proclamation is centered around the CROSS of Jesus, and our Faith in it.

 2009/10/23 11:40

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


I have deleted your forum account and ask that you do not re-register.

And yet you have brazenly disregarded our host's request by creating a new one. This action does not come from the heart of God, nor does the myriad of contentious posts as evidenced in this thread.

This horrible thread is being shut down. I am sad that someone who purports to be a member of the "one holy and apostolic church" would exude such a spirit contrary to the meekness and fragrance of Christ, but by their fruit such are made known - regardless of their dogma and/or ecclesiastical rubrics.

[i]Topic terminated.[/i]

Paul Frederick West

 2009/10/23 11:44Profile

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