| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | The doctrine of a literal imputation of Christ's obedience or righteousness is supported by those who hold it, by such passages as the following: Rom. iv. 5-8."But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputed righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." But here [u]justification is represented only as consisting in forgiveness of sin, or in pardon and acceptance[/u]. Again, 2 Cor. v. 19, 21. "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Here again the apostle is teaching only his much-loved doctrine of justification by faith, in the sense that upon condition or in consideration of the death and mediatorial interference and work of Christ, penitent believers in Christ are [u]forgiven and rewarded as if they were righteous[/u]." Charles Finney (Systematic Theology) |
|  2009/10/2 0:03 | |
| | Re: | | The way to be saved is very simple: repent and believe. If we forsake our sins, in our heart, and turn to Christ and trust in Him, in our heart, then we are saved. Then we must persevere unto the end to be finally saved at last, or to stay saved rather. If our hearts forsake Christ for sin, we are not persevering, we are not saved, we must repent.
We do not need to remember every sin we have ever committed to be saved. We do not have to name every sin we have ever committed to be saved. We simply need to forsake all sin in our hearts. That is true repentance. If our heart holds on to any sin at all, if we refuse to give up any of our sins, then our heart is disobedient to God, we are not regenerate or born again.
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| | 2009/10/2 0:09 | | roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
We do not need to remember every sin we have ever committed to be saved. We do not have to name every sin we have ever committed to be saved
But wait, if I have unconfessed sin, I can't be saved, or at least that is what you have hinted at.
How can God overlook it and allow me to have fellowship with Him?
By the way justification is a legal declaration of being righteous because of Christ's righteousness, not mine. he intercedes for me before the Father. That is why Paul says that our life is hid with Christ.
A believer is not subject to condemnation any longer. He will be chastened, but not condemned.
The truth that you seem to overlook is that the Law demands perfect obedience ALL the time. To break one law is to break ALL of it.
Therefore we need a righteousness before God that allows us into His presence. The Good News IS NOT what I must do to be saved. It is instead what God has done in Christ to save me.
_________________
patrick heaviside
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| | 2009/10/2 0:21 | Profile | Logic
Member
Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791
| | Re: | | Quote:
TaylorOtwell wrote:
I'm noticing that every time that truefaithsav or Logic quote 2nd Corinthians 5:21 they have to insert words into the verse to make it fit their argument.
It is just like the Bible using [i]italics[/i].
The [i]italicized[/i] word is not in the Greek or Hebrew, but inserted for clarification.
[b]Psalm 14:1[/b] [color=990000]The fool hath said in his heart, [i]There is[/i] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [i]there is[/i] none that doeth good.[/color]
The Hebrew would have it as [color=990000]The fool hath said in his heart, no God...[/color]
The word "No" means "none", as in there is none.
But ith out the [i]added words[/i], one could think it means, "The fool hath said in his heart 'I disagree God".
[color=990000]For he has made him [i]to be[/i] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[/color]
Therefore the literal would be "[color=990000]For he has made him sin for us, who knew no sin...[/color]"
With out the [i]added words[/i], one could think it says that God made Jesus sin (made jesus to actually do sin).
Quote:
Guys, the verse does not say "made sin (sin offering)". That parenthetical clarification is not in my Bible, I don't know about y'alls...
The Greek does not say, "For he hath made him [b]to be[/b] sin for us" either, but it actually says, "made Jesus sin".
We are just doing what the translaters are doing with [i]italicized words[/i], putting them there for clairification.
Quote:
Did anyone ever answer my question as to why Paul would use the exact same word for "sin" in 2 Corinthians 5:21 if they were to mean two completely different things?
It does not matter if he used the same word, but that the word is in context.
[color=990000]God made Jesus to be a[/color] ("sin offering" as this was how God did it in the Old Testament to cover sin) [color=990000]who knew no sin[/color] (did not have any experience of sin, therefore innocent) [color=990000]for us[/color] (on our account) [color=990000]that we might be made the righteousness of God in him[/color] (because a sin offering was offered to God).
Quote:
If we supply "sin offering" consistently for the Greek word as apparently suggested, the verse would read "he who knew no sin-offering". That doesn't make any sense.
Correct, it does not make any sense, but neither does making Jesus to be actual sin make any sense, this is even more absurd.
We must understand that God had sin offerings made in the Old Testament. Jesus is that ultimate sin offering; The Lamb of God.
The Offering was never "made [i]to be[/i] sin", as you would have it, but it was a sacrifice [b]offered[/b] in our place as a substitute. |
| | 2009/10/2 1:00 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
By the way justification is a legal declaration of being righteous
WHAT IS JUSTIFICATION??
By these words [Romans 4:6-7] we are taught that justification with Paul is nothing else but pardon of sin [b]John Calvin[/b], (Albert Barnes Commentary on the Romans, p. 106)
"In response to heart faith a marvelous thing happens. In heaven, we are justified
our standing before God has changed. Justified means it is as though I had never sinned." [b]Paris Reidhead[/b] (Finding the Reality of God, pg 111)
What is gospel justification? It consists not in the law pronouncing the sinner just, but in his being ultimately governmentally treated as if he were just; that is, it consists in a governmental decree of pardon or amnesty in arresting and setting aside the execution of the incurred penalty of law in pardoning and restoring to favor those who have sinned, and those whom the law pronounced guilty, and upon whom it had passed the sentence of eternal death, and rewarding them as if they had been righteous
(Romans 4:6-7). This quotation from David shows both what David and what Paul understood by justification, to wit, the pardon and acceptance of the penitent sinner. [b]Charles Finney[/b] (Finneys Systematic Theology, Published by Bethany House, p. 360).
It is very evident that in this text [Acts 13:38-39] forgiveness and justification are used interchangeably, as synonymous terms
In this rich passage [Rom. 3:25-26], which presents the fundamental elements of redemption, to remit sins and to justify, on the basis of the atonement, through the instrumentality of faith, are treated as precisely the same thing, and signify a release from the guilt and punishment of past sin, through the forbearance of God. [b]Asbury Lowrey[/b], (Positive Theology, Published by R. P. Thompson, 1854, p. 211-212)
What is justification then? To be justified is to have our sin forgiven, such that the penalty of that sin will not be carried out on us as the guilty parties. We remain guilty for the sin, but because of the atonement of Christ, and our meeting the conditions (repentance, faith), God is free to release us from the punishment we deserve to receive, He can treat us governmentally as if we were righteous, even though we are guilty of breaking his law. It is this governmental treatment as righteous, even though we are guilty, that constitutes justification. [b]Michael Saia[/b] (Understanding the Cross, Published by Xulon, p. 133).
Let it be clear that forgiveness, justification, or imputed righteousness is conditional upon an attitude of heart repentance (Isa. 55:7; Eze. 18:32; Mk. 1:4; Lk. 13:3; 13:5; 24:47) and faith from the heart (Jn. 3:18; Acts 16:31; Rom. 10:9; Eph. 2:8-9). And final salvation is ultimately conditional upon perseverance unto the end (Matt. 10:22; 24:13; Mk. 13:13; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; Heb. 3:6; 3:14; 2 Pet. 2:20). Repentance is when a person changes their mind about sinning and makes up their mind to sin no more (Isa. 1:16; 55:7; Jn. 5:14; 8:11; 1 Cor. 15:34; Eph. 4:22-28), and faith is the hearts embrace and obedience to the truth (Lk. 24:25; Acts 8:37; 15:9; 26:18; Rom. 10:10; 1 Pet. 1:22).
The notion of being righteous in our position but unrighteous in our practice is absolutely contrary to scripture (1 Jn. 3:7; 3:10), and it over looks the conditions of forgiveness and the nature of saving faith. Such a concept is false doctrine and damnable heresy (2 Pet. 2:1; Jude 1:4-5).
Jesus is the author of salvation to all them that obey Him (Heb. 5:9), the Gospel must be obeyed (Rom. 2:8; 6:17; 10:16; Gal. 3:1; 5:7; 2 Thes. 1:8; 1 Pet. 4:17). Christians are those who keep Gods commandments (1 Jn. 2:3; 3:22; 5:2-3). Only those who keep Gods commandments will enter through the gates into the Heaven (Matt. 7:21; 19:17; 25:21, 23, 46; Lk. 10:28; Heb. 12:14; Rev. 22:14), while all sinners will be left outside the Holy City (Matt. 7:23; Lk. 13:27; Rev. 22:15). God will kill and destroy all sinners and rebels (Amos 9:10; 2 Cor. 10:6; 2 Thes. 1:8; Heb. 10:27; 1 Pet. 4:8; 4:17).
The wrath of God is impartial (Ex. 32:33; Deut. 10:17; Rom. 2:9; 2 Cor. 10:6; Col. 3:25; 2 Pet. 1:17; 1 Jn. 3:15; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), so anyone who consciously or knowingly sins or rebels is under condemnation (Jn. 3:19; Rom. 1:18, 2:6-11; Heb. 10:26-31; 1 Jn. 3:8, 3:15, 3:20; 2 Jn. 1:9). God is utterly against all those who sin every day (Isa. 52:5; Hos 13:2; 2 Pet. 2:14). God must condemn all those who do not stop sinning.
Christians are those who were formerly disobedient (Tit. 3:3; 1 Pet. 3:20) but are no longer disobedient (Rom. 6:17; Php. 2:12). Christians make the daily choice to obey God (Lk. 9:23; 1 Cor. 15:31). Christians are not sinners (Ps. 66:18; Jn. 9:31; 2 Cor. 6:14; 1 Tim. 1:9; Jas. 5:16; 1 Pet. 3:12; 4:18; 1 Jn. 3:22) unless they backslide (Jas. 4:8; 5:19-20), all Christians are saints (Acts 9:13; 9:32; 9:41; 26:10; Rom. 1:7; 8:27; 12:13; 15:25-16; 15:26; 15:31; 16:2; 16:15; 1 Cor. 1:2; 6:1-2; 14:33; 16:1; 16:15; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:4; 9:1; 9:12; 13:13; Eph. 1:1; 1:15; 1:18; 2:19; 3:8; 3:18; 4:12; 5:3; 6:18; Php. 1:1; 4:22; Col. 1:2; 1:4; 1:12; 1:26; 1 Thes. 3:13; 2 Thes. 1:10; 1 Tim. 5:10; Phm. 1:5; 1:7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jud. 1:3; 1:14; Rev. 5:8; 8:3-4; 11:18; 13:7; 13:10; 14:12; 15:3; 16:6; 17:6; 18:24; 19:8; 20:9). As saints, Christians are sanctified (Acts 20:32; 26:18; 1 Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 2:11; 10:10; 10:14; Gal. 5:24; Jud. 1:1), that is, Christians are free from deliberate rebellion or intentional sin (Jn. 8:34-36; Rom. 6:2; 6:6-7; 6:11; 6:18; 6:22; 8:2; Gal. 5:24; Eph. 6:6). Christians have pure hearts (Matt. 5:8; Rom. 6:17; 1 Pet. 1:22), so they keep Gods commands (1 Jn. 2:3; 3:22; 5:2-3).
When men turn from all their sins and put their faith in the blood of Jesus Christ which was shed for them, God forgives them of their sin by remitting the penalty they deserve. God considers them righteous, governmentally treating them just as if they had never sinned.
Quote:
A believer is not subject to condemnation any longer. He will be chastened, but not condemned.
The entire Bible which repeatedly and abundantly teaches the doctrine of probation or conditional security for believers (Eze. 3:20-21; 18:18-31; 33:12-20; Matt. 6:14-15; 10:22; 24:13; 24:48-51; 25:1-13; Mk. 4:16-19; 13:13; Jn. 6:66; 8:31; 15:6; Acts 1:25; 11:23; 13:43; 14:22; Rom. 8:13; 11:20-23; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:9-10; 9:27; 10:5-13; 15:1-2; Gal. 5:4-9; 5:19-21; 6:7-9; Col. 1:21-23; 1 Thes. 3:5; 3:8; 2 Thes. 2:3; 1 Tim. 1:5-6; 1:18-20; 3:6; 4:1; 4:16; 5:15; 2 Tim. 2:12; 4:9-10; Heb. 2:1; 2:3; 3:6; 3:8-15; 3:18-19; 4:1; 4:11; 4:14; 6:1; 6:8; 6:11-12; 6:15; 10:23; 10:26-31; 10:35-39; 12:14-15; 12:25; Jas. 1:13-16; 5:19-20; 2 Pet. 1:9; 2:20-22; 3:17; Rev. 2:4-7; 2:10-11; 2:17; 2:25-26; 3:2-5; 3:10-12; 3:16; 3:19; 3:20; 21:8; 22:15).
The Bible speaks of Christians who have departed from the faith (Matt. 18:21-34; 24:10; Mk. 4:17; Lk. 8:13; Jn. 6:66; Acts 1:25 w. Matt. 19:28; 2 Thes. 2:3; 1 Tim. 1:19; 4:1; 2 Tim. 3:8; 4:10; Heb. 3:12-15; 4:1-11; 6:6; 10:29; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; Jud. 1:5).
We have the example of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven of his unpaid debt, but then later had his debt reinstated because of his immoral conduct (Matt. 18:23-35). This parable clearly shows how the Lord can graciously pardon an individual and then later execute the punishment that they deserve.
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| | 2009/10/2 2:21 | | roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
The entire Bible which repeatedly and abundantly teaches the doctrine of probation or conditional security for believers
So then what do you make of Romans 8:30 "And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."
All past tense verbs. Not to mention the fact that Jesus says that those who come to Him will never be lost, but raised up on that day. John 6
In regard to Calvin, here are quotes from the Institutes on justification which are a little more than what you said.
[i]"2. Lest we should stumble at the very threshold (this we should do were we to begin the discussion without knowing what the subject is), let us first explain the meaning of the expressions, To be justified in the sight of God, to be Justified by faith or by works. A man is said to be justified in the sight of God when in the judgment of God he is deemed righteous, and is accepted on account of his righteousness; 2038for as iniquity is abominable to God, so neither can the sinner find grace in his sight, so far as he is and so long as he is regarded as a sinner. Hence, wherever sin is, there also are the wrath and vengeance of God. He, on the other hand, is justified who is regarded not as a sinner, but as righteous, and as such stands acquitted at the judgment-seat of God, where all sinners are condemned. As an innocent man, when charged before an impartial judge, who decides according to his innocence, is said to be justified by the judge, as a man is said to be justified by God when, removed from the catalogue of sinners, he has God as the witness and assertor of his righteousness. In the same manner, a man will be said to be justified by works, if in his life there can be found a purity and holiness which merits an attestation of righteousness at the throne of God, or if by the perfection of his works he can answer and satisfy the divine justice. On the contrary, a man will be justified by faith when, excluded from the righteousness of works, he by faith lays hold of the righteousness of Christ, and clothed in it appears in the sight of God not as a sinner, but as righteous. Thus we simply interpret justification, as the acceptance with which God receives us into his favor as if we were righteous; and we say that this justification consists in the forgiveness of sins and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ"[/i]
and more
[i]"In regard to the use of the term with reference to the present subject, when Paul speaks of the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, (Gal. 3:8), what other meaning can you give it than that God imputes righteousness by faith? Again, when he says, that he (God) might be just, and the justifier of him who believeth in Jesus, (Rom. 3:26), what can the meaning be, if not that God, in consideration of their faith, frees them from the condemnation which their wickedness deserves? This appears still more plainly at the conclusion, when he exclaims, Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us (Rom. 8:33, 34). For it is just as if he had said, Who shall accuse those whom God has acquitted? Who shall condemn those for whom Christ pleads? To justify, therefore, is nothing else than to acquit from the charge of guilt, as if innocence were proved. Hence, when God justifies us through the intercession of Christ, he does not acquit us on a proof of our own innocence, but by an imputation of righteousness, so that though not righteous in ourselves, we are deemed righteous in Christ. Thus it is said, in Pauls discourse in the Acts, Through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses, (Acts 13:38, 39)."[/i]
I recommend you read the rest here so you can make a more informed use of using Calvin to try to argue justification-
[url=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xii.html]The Institutes Book 3[/url]
_________________
patrick heaviside
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| | 2009/10/2 2:49 | Profile | rookie
Member
Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: | | What do we do with Romans 8:30?
That which is predestined is the work of God transforming a corrupt man into the image of His Son. For those who obey,these will find their love of God grows and grows. This love overcomes the world. One can only have this if one continues to walk in the light of life....
Listen to this Scripture...
Job 33:23 "If there is a messenger for him, A mediator, one among a thousand, To show man His uprightness,
Job 33:24 Then He is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down to the Pit; I have found a ransom';
Job 33:25 His flesh shall be young like a child's, He shall return to the days of his youth.
Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.
Job 33:27 Then he looks at men and says, 'I have sinned, and perverted [what was] right, And it did not profit me.'
Job 33:28 He will redeem his [fn] soul from going down to the Pit, And his life shall see the light.
In verse 26, we find that God restores to man HIs righteousness. This work of God brings many things to a man who continues to walk in the light of life...
In verse 27, we find that as this man walks in the light he testifies of the goodness of God that brings the truth to bear in each of our lives. Our old ways are perverted and these ways did not profit us. Only those who continue to walk will find this precept dear to their lives. Only those who walk in this manner, in the light of life will be transformed into the predestined work of Christ.
In Christ
Jeff
_________________
Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2009/10/2 7:19 | Profile | ceedub
Member
Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada
| | Re: | | truefaithsav:
Quote:
[b]If our heart holds on to any sin at all[/b], if we refuse to give up any of our sins, then our heart is disobedient to God, [b]we are not regenerate or born again[/b].
Wow. What good news.
A little different than John's approach.
Though John spoke of plan A as 'sin not', he added immediately that if we did we had an advocate in Christ as is pictured beautifully in Zech 3.
According to the above quote, plan B is damnation.
Eventually it shows up how much good theology matters.
Mt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
I say again...
What about self-righteousness and spiritual pride, do they count as daily sins? How about poor doctrine? And what about lording so-called truths over others online in a fashion that I guarantee you wouldn't try in person?
Do these count as sins that those that are truly saved never do?
I'm just thinking about the Pharisees and how they held a high outward standard, spoke much of their righteousness, spoke often against others for not meeting their standard. How they would try and intimidate others and put burdens on them they themselves wouldn't carry. How they talked much of God and righteousness buy denied Christ's righteousness loving their own much more.
Do these sins count?
I mean, when I look at how Jesus dealt with the humble who hated their ways (proof of new cov't experience at the end of Ez 36) compared to how he dealt with the spiritually proud, I'm just wondering if these sins count.
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| | 2009/10/2 12:45 | Profile | TruthNLove
Member
Joined: 2009/6/25
Posts: 34
California
| | Re: Imputed Righteousness "of Christ"?? | | TrueSavFaith,
You are confusing (and blurring) the doctiness of Imputation and Justification by suggesting as you've stated that the Imputed Righteousness of Christ is equivocated to "forgiveness of sins" or "not giving what we deserve but treating us as we are righteous". That is Justification not the Imputation of Christ Righteousness. Now both doctrines reinforce one another. It is sometimes called the the doctrine "justification by imputation".
Let me explain. Justification can only be made true because of the Imputation of the Righteousness of Christ that happens during one's conversion (repentance and faith). 2 Cor 5:21 states God made him who had no sin to be sin for us,so that in him we might become the righteosness of God.
Therfore Justification means that we are no longer declared guilty of our sins (positionally) no longer condemned under the wrath of God because of our faith(biblical faith)which happens immediately at the time our our conversion. The phrase "In Him" signifies our faith in Christ in which the Holy Spirit has baptized us in to his body. By faith in Christ we are declared righteous (positionally) because Christ Righteousness has been Imputed to our account. That is Imputation of Christ Righteousness. We are in him by faith therefore his Righteousnes is in us clothed on us. If you deny the imputation of his righteousness (which is not forgiveness of sins as you stated, forgiveness of sins is a byproduct of conversion) credited to our account than you deny the imputation of our sins to Christ account.
Furthermore as stated in Gal 2:21 " I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing. As you can clearly see Paul was not equivocating righteousness with "forgiveness of sins or treating us as righteous" as you've stated but suggesting that Righteousness is the demand of a Holy God in which cannot be gained through by keeping law (which is impossible to man) but only by grace through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
For he alone is the Righteous (Infinitely perfect and Holy) one who satisfied the perfect demand of the Father by fullfilling the law. THerefore we have rest from the works of the law because of our faith in Christ. It is his Righteousness (positionally,which obviously suggest that we're forgiven) that allows us even come before him and be reconciled to God. Christ was our substitute we need his righteousness not just forgiveness as you stated.
Your dillema is that you muddy and cofuse two doctrines (that reinforce each other)Justification and the Imputation of Christ and try to make them the same thing in which thety are not.
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| | 2009/10/2 14:24 | Profile | twayneb
Member
Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
TrueSavFaith, You are confusing (and blurring) the doctiness of Imputation and Justification by suggesting as you've stated that the Imputed Righteousness of Christ is equivocated to "forgiveness of sins" or "not giving what we deserve but treating us as we are righteous". That is Justification not the Imputation of Christ Righteousness. Now both doctrines reinforce one another. It is sometimes called the the doctrine "justification by imputation". Let me explain. Justification can only be made true because of the Imputation of the Righteousness of Christ that happens during one's conversion (repentance and faith). 2 Cor 5:21 states God made him who had no sin to be sin for us,so that in him we might become the righteosness of God. Therfore Justification means that we are no longer declared guilty of our sins (positionally) no longer condemned under the wrath of God because of our faith(biblical faith)which happens immediately at the time our our conversion. The phrase "In Him" signifies our faith in Christ in which the Holy Spirit has baptized us in to his body. By faith in Christ we are declared righteous (positionally) because Christ Righteousness has been Imputed to our account. That is Imputation of Christ Righteousness. We are in him by faith therefore his Righteousnes is in us clothed on us. If you deny the imputation of his righteousness (which is not forgiveness of sins as you stated, forgiveness of sins is a byproduct of conversion) credited to our account than you deny the imputation of our sins to Christ account. Furthermore as stated in Gal 2:21 " I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing. As you can clearly see Paul was not equivocating righteousness with "forgiveness of sins or treating us as righteous" as you've stated but suggesting that Righteousness is the demand of a Holy God in which cannot be gained through by keeping law (which is impossible to man) but only by grace through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For he alone is the Righteous (Infinitely perfect and Holy) one who satisfied the perfect demand of the Father by fullfilling the law. THerefore we have rest from the works of the law because of our faith in Christ. It is his Righteousness (positionally,which obviously suggest that we're forgiven) that allows us even come before him and be reconciled to God. Christ was our substitute we need his righteousness not just forgiveness as you stated. Your dillema is that you muddy and cofuse two doctrines (that reinforce each other)Justification and the Imputation of Christ and try to make them the same thing in which thety are not.
I think this is a point well made. If you take the whole counsel of scripture, you come to a conclusion something like this. Man was with God in a pure and righteous state before sin entered the world. Man sinned, and became dead in his spirit toward God. He was not righteous in the sight of God, nor could he be. For several reasons: to restrain sin, to show us on a level we could comprehend the holy standard of a holy God, and to cause us to despair of ever being able to attain that holiness on our own, God instituted the law to be in force until the fullness of time. Then came Jesus Christ. He became sin for us so that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. It was an atonement that we had no part in other than to surrender ourselves to the Savior, put faith in His grace, and receive right standing with God. Call it what you will theologically. In the process we are justified (it is a play on the word, but it really means that we stand before God just as if we had never sinned), we are saved (from having to bear the consequences of our sin), we are born again (there has been a regeneration, a bringing to life, a quickening of our spirit. We can now fellowship with God once again in spirit and in truth. The enmity has been taken away), we are made righteous (a right standing before God has been given unto us through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we could not earn). It is possible to lose that right standing, but not through an action of sin. Should I sin so that God's grace may abound all the more unto me??? God forbid!!! How shall I, who am dead to sin, continue to live in sin? But I am not made unrighteous in God's sight due to an action of sin. If that were the case, I live my life on a tortuous rollercoaster of being saved / lost / saved / lost and born again again every time I sin. Scripture just does not teach this. Sin is deadly. To continue in sin that God has dealt with my heart about means I have to harden my heart to Him. It opens the door for the enemy to come in and wreck havoc on my life. But if you read Hebrews carefully, you will find that the way to lose right standing with God is to forsake your salvation, to turn away unto perdition.
i know the common arguments and the common objections. Some denominations preach what is always condemned as the "once saved always saved" doctrine. Some on the other side preach conditional immortality to the extreme that one act of unrepented sin damns a person to hell until they get it "under the blood" so to speak. I cannot agree with either I guess.
If I am born again, my spirit will cringe at the thought of sinning. I will not desire it in the least bit. So many make it about sinning or not sinning, about actions and deeds and how God sees them. I contend that actions and deeds are important, but that is not what salvation, justification, redemption, regeneration, imputed righteousness is all about.
I live a holy life, probably holier than most around me as far as my outward actions are concerned. (Not saying this in any kind of pride. Just acknowledging a fact) I have never smoked. I have never drank. I could count my lifetime allotment of using curse words on two hands. I don't own a television... But NONE of these things does one bit of good in making me right with God nor in having God be one bit more pleased with me than with anyone else. I am righteous one thing. That is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ being imputed unto me. I am nothing on my own. Through Christ I am made righteous, and walk in that standing. It has made me so free, and caused me to run to Him any time I fall short, throw myself at His feet, repent, and get right back in the game. It has caused me to grow in holiness day by day out of pure desire for Him and for His holiness.
Maybe I am rambling. That is a little bit of how I see it anyway.
Travis.
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Travis
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| | 2009/10/2 17:30 | Profile |
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