SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Was Jesus Sinful? Luther & Sproul

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Sin is a state of the will, a disobedient state. That will manifest into actions, but sin is never a substance or a quality of matter. That is Gnosticism.



So Jesus was made "a state of the will"? That really doesn't make sense.

Let's stick to this passage we are looking at for the time being and see if sin is something more than what you and logic are making it. Because it sure seems that Christ being made sin means He was made sin(substance) without actually being sinful.

So the reverse of that would be that we are [i]made righteous[/i] without [i]becoming righteous[/i]. Fruit will be produced of course, but that is another text.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/10/1 18:04Profile









 Re:

"Did you even read the first post?

This thread is about those quotes!"truefaithsav



Listen pal you quoted my post. Did you read it? "Who is saying that Jesus was literally sinful and literally guilty?"

You were responding to my post. I said "can the people here clarify". Are Luther and Calvin here? I was talking to those on the thread to clarify, not the dead. Perhaps if you weren't so bent on having a smart alic response to each thing written then you would understand what exactly you are responding to.

 2009/10/1 18:10









 Re:

Jesus who knew no sin (choice) became sin (sin offering) for us, that we might be might the righteousness of God (receive the forgiveness that comes from God).

Very simple.

I started a new thread explaining how "imputed righteousness" is synonomous with being forgiven and accepted.

"But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp, it is a SIN OFFERING". That is how it is translated even though the Hebrew simply says "SIN". But obviously the flesh and skin of the bullock was not SIN, it was a SIN OFFERING!

OTHER PASSAGES WHERE "SIN" IS TRANSLATED "SIN-OFFERING":

, Exo_29:14, Exo_29:36 : Leviticus, Lev_4:3, Lev_4:8, Lev_4:20, Lev_4:21, Lev_4:24, Lev_4:25, Lev_4:29, Lev_4:32-34; Lev_5:6, Lev_5:7, Lev_5:8, Lev_5:9, Lev_5:11, Lev_5:12; Lev_6:17, Lev_6:25, Lev_6:30; Lev_7:7, Lev_7:37; Lev_8:2, Lev_8:14; Lev_9:2, Lev_9:3, Lev_9:7, Lev_9:8, Lev_9:10, Lev_9:15, Lev_9:22; Lev_10:16, Lev_10:17, Lev_10:19; Lev_12:6, Lev_12:8; Lev_14:13, Lev_14:19, Lev_14:22, Lev_14:31; Lev_15:15, Lev_15:30; Lev_16:3, Lev_16:5, Lev_16:6, Lev_16:9, Lev_16:11, Lev_16:15, Lev_16:25, Lev_16:27; Lev_23:19 : Numbers, Num_6:11, Num_6:14, Num_6:16; Num_7:16, Num_7:22, Num_7:28, Num_7:34, Num_7:40, Num_7:46, Num_7:52, Num_7:58, Num_7:70, Num_7:76, Num_7:82, Num_7:87; Num_8:8, Num_8:12; Num_15:24, Num_15:25, Num_15:27; Num_18:9; Num_28:15, Num_28:22; Num_29:5, Num_29:11, Num_29:16, Num_29:22, Num_29:25, Num_29:28, Num_29:31, Num_29:34, Num_29:38. 2 Chronicles, 2Ch_29:21, 2Ch_29:23, 2Ch_29:24 : Ezra, Ezr_6:17; Ezr_8:35 : Nehemiah, Neh_10:33 : Job, Job_1:5 : Ezekiel, Eze_43:19, Eze_43:22, Eze_43:25; Eze_44:27, Eze_44:29; Eze_45:17, Eze_45:19, Eze_45:22, Eze_45:23, Eze_45:25.

 2009/10/1 18:13









 Re:

When Isaac was a lad, God told Abraham to take his only son to a place that God would choose and to offer him up as a sacrifice. Abraham put the wood that was necessary for the sacrifice on the back of his son Isaac. Genesis 22:1-6

Because the wood was laid upon him, did the wood become apart of Isaac? Or was he just bearing the load alone?

Because Christ became sin, does it mean that He became a sinner? God forbid, we know that he that continues to sin is of the devil. Christ bore our sins, but did not participate in them. Like the wood, he was only nailed to it, did not become apart of it. The wood typifies the flesh. He was nailed to wood which typifies you and I.





Side note: We are not one through the flesh but through the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ which produced a New Creature, old things are passed away behold all things have become new.

 2009/10/1 18:16









 Re:

"Jesus who knew no sin (choice) became sin (sin offering) for us, that we might be might the righteousness of God (receive the forgiveness that comes from God).

Very simple."truefaithsav

Okay. And I simply wanted those on the thread to clarify for themselve what they meant, not what you meant.

 2009/10/1 18:25
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
Sin is a state of the will, a disobedient state. That will manifest into actions, but sin is never a substance or a quality of matter. That is Gnosticism.

So Jesus was made "a state of the will"? That really doesn't make sense.

[color=990000]He who knew no sin[/color] (did not have a will in the state of rebelion/disobediance as to choose to do any sin) [color=990000]became sin[/color] (A sin offering) [color=990000]for us[/color] (so that God may deem us as righteous).

Or according to roaringlam"[color=990000]He who knew no sin[/color] (did not have a will in the state of rebelion/disobediance, or have a rebelious will as to choose to do any sin) [color=990000]became sin[/color] (the state of rebelion/disobediance, or a rebelion of the will as to be the act of any sin) [color=990000]for us[/color]

 2009/10/1 18:25Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Or according to roaringlam"He who knew no sin (did not have a will in the state of rebelion/disobediance, or have a rebelious will as to choose to do any sin) became sin (the state of rebelion/disobediance, or a rebelion of the will as to be the act of any sin) for us



Umm where did I say any of that?

And also, are you saying that Christ had a rebellious will? thus implying that He could have sinned? So God can sin?

Do you really want to go down that path again?

And again, you have to deal with the fact that sin in that passage is a noun, it is a thing that Christ was made.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/10/1 18:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:

truefaithsav wrote:
Jesus who knew no sin (choice) became sin (sin offering) for us, that we might be might the righteousness of God (receive the forgiveness that comes from God).

Very simple.

I started a new thread explaining how "imputed righteousness" is synonomous with being forgiven and accepted.

"But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp, it is a SIN OFFERING". That is how it is translated even though the Hebrew simply says "SIN". But obviously the flesh and skin of the bullock was not SIN, it was a SIN OFFERING!

OTHER PASSAGES WHERE "SIN" IS TRANSLATED "SIN-OFFERING":

, Exo_29:14, Exo_29:36 : Leviticus, Lev_4:3, Lev_4:8, Lev_4:20, Lev_4:21, Lev_4:24, Lev_4:25, Lev_4:29, Lev_4:32-34; Lev_5:6, Lev_5:7, Lev_5:8, Lev_5:9, Lev_5:11, Lev_5:12; Lev_6:17, Lev_6:25, Lev_6:30; Lev_7:7, Lev_7:37; Lev_8:2, Lev_8:14; Lev_9:2, Lev_9:3, Lev_9:7, Lev_9:8, Lev_9:10, Lev_9:15, Lev_9:22; Lev_10:16, Lev_10:17, Lev_10:19; Lev_12:6, Lev_12:8; Lev_14:13, Lev_14:19, Lev_14:22, Lev_14:31; Lev_15:15, Lev_15:30; Lev_16:3, Lev_16:5, Lev_16:6, Lev_16:9, Lev_16:11, Lev_16:15, Lev_16:25, Lev_16:27; Lev_23:19 : Numbers, Num_6:11, Num_6:14, Num_6:16; Num_7:16, Num_7:22, Num_7:28, Num_7:34, Num_7:40, Num_7:46, Num_7:52, Num_7:58, Num_7:70, Num_7:76, Num_7:82, Num_7:87; Num_8:8, Num_8:12; Num_15:24, Num_15:25, Num_15:27; Num_18:9; Num_28:15, Num_28:22; Num_29:5, Num_29:11, Num_29:16, Num_29:22, Num_29:25, Num_29:28, Num_29:31, Num_29:34, Num_29:38. 2 Chronicles, 2Ch_29:21, 2Ch_29:23, 2Ch_29:24 : Ezra, Ezr_6:17; Ezr_8:35 : Nehemiah, Neh_10:33 : Job, Job_1:5 : Ezekiel, Eze_43:19, Eze_43:22, Eze_43:25; Eze_44:27, Eze_44:29; Eze_45:17, Eze_45:19, Eze_45:22, Eze_45:23, Eze_45:25.




I like this truefaithsav guy almost as much as Walter. He is just as unruly and dismissive of the moderators (no doubt he shares Walter's and my suspicion that the moderators are Illuminati infiltrators trying to impose One World Churchism on all of us). And no doubt he carries a Chick Publications Soulwinner's Bible (KJV) and wears horn-rimmed glasses and polyester leisure suits - that is, when he is not wearing sackcloth and a "FLEE FROM THE WRATH TO COME!" sandwich board.

By the way, where is Walter? In a thread this hair-splitting and tedious, he normally would have pasted at least couple of mile-long theological treatises by now. I hope nothing terrible has happened.

 2009/10/1 19:14









 Re:

"By the way, where is Walter? In a thread this hair-splitting and tedious, he normally would have pasted at least couple of mile-long theological treatises by now. I hope nothing terrible has happened."loingirder

Come on now, this wasn't necessary nor Christlike. I can't ever see Christ rebuking in this kind of mean spirited sarcasm.

 2009/10/1 19:41









 Re:

Quote:

ccrider wrote:
"By the way, where is Walter? In a thread this hair-splitting and tedious, he normally would have pasted at least couple of mile-long theological treatises by now. I hope nothing terrible has happened."loingirder

Come on now, this wasn't necessary nor Christlike. I can't ever see Christ rebuking in this kind of mean spirited sarcasm.



No, a Christ-like rebuke is more like "Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees! Hypocrites! Brood of vipers! How shall ye escape the condemnation of hell!"

And then there is "Woe unto ye blind guides, who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel." (That's sarcasm.)

 2009/10/1 19:51





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy