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IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Gift of Prophecy?

Is the gift of prophecy the gift to see upcoming events in the future, or is it a gift of God opening His heart to an individual?

Or is it both?

I'm just curious because I've been agonizing lately at nights... At the state of unsaved believers in the congregation, as well as the state of saved believers who seem satisfied with living in time, for time, rather than living in eternity, for eternity.

I do lose much sleep... I attend school full-time during the days and work at nights... I will be exhausted, and I just want to sleep when I come home, but I'll be wide awake and toss and turn in bed for hours thinking about these things.

I don't know what's going on with me. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind? Just end up weeping and crying when I talk about God with fellow believers.

Perhaps I'm just looking for encouragement... I don't know, this post turned into a rant. I'm sorry.


_________________
Sba

 2009/10/1 12:07Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Dear brother - prophecy works both ways. It is my deep conviction, however, that men are not friends of God because they're called to be prophets; rather men become prophets as a result of being God's friend. Abraham was called both a prophet and a friend of God. Moses was regarded as both a great prophet and a friend who knew the Lord face to face. There is a partaking of the Lord's sufferings and joys that makes a prophet. Perhaps this is what the Lord is doing in your heart..?


_________________
Jeff

 2009/10/1 12:18Profile
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Dear Brother,

Mark 4:36 And when they had sent away the multitude, they took him even as he was in the ship. And there were also with him other little ships.

37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

38 [b]And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow:[/b] and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?

39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

40 And he said unto them, [b]Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?[/b]


Jesus did not loose sleep over it, and he probably saw it in a much greater degree than we do.


Psl 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

2 It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.


To be "vain" in this sense, means not profitable.

How can you have joy in the Lord, when you are anguishing over those whom you think may be lost. It is not anguish, but the "joy" of the Lord that is our strength.

God really does not want you to anguish in this manner. It is unprofitable for him and for you. You speak the truth, or as Paul said: You plant and water, but only God can give the increase. If God is not giving the increase, then you cannot agonize over it.

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, (or who IWantAnguish) but ministers by whom ye believed, [b]even as the Lord gave to every man?[b]

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; [b]but God gave the increase.[/b]

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; [b]but God that giveth the increase.[/b]

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Do you know who is responcible to build, once the foundation is laid? The "INDIVIDUAL". That is it is each of our independent responcibilities to build the truth into our lives.


11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 [b]Now if any man[/b] build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 [b]Every man's work shall be made manifest:[/b] for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try [b]every man's work of what sort it is.[/b]

14 [b]If any man's[/b] work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 [b]If any man's[/b] work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 [b]If any man[/b] defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

So you see here that some shall receive a full reward, others saved by the skin of their teeth, and others destroyed. That is just the way it is, and every man shall prove his own work.

You are only responcible to speak the truth. To loose sleep over what is God's responsibility, in giving the increase, is to anguish in vain. Maybe you need to change your user name, to something like "JoyIntheLord 2009", or something more condusive to what God really desires for you.

That you have a heart for these people is great, but not to the point of loosing sleep over them. As it says, the Lord gives his beloved sleep.

God bless you, and I hope you find the peace of Christ. As he said "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. Not as the world gives, give I unto you. Let not your heat be troubled, neither let it be afriad.

Regards,
El Harris



 2009/10/2 13:13Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4527


 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Hi IWantAnguish...

Quote:
Is the gift of prophecy the gift to see upcoming events in the future, or is it a gift of God opening His heart to an individual?

Or is it both?

I think that the Scriptures can speak for themselves in such an instance. Unfortunately, I think that the exact answer to your question might be as ambiguous as the Scriptures don't necessarily give an exact, detailed explanation. There are several passages (especially in I Corinthians) regarding the gift of prophecy. However, you might want to consider I Corinthians chapter 14, which is quite explicit in its instructions and distribution. Here is that same passage in the KJV, NASB and NIV:
Quote:

[b]KJV[/b]
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.



Quote:

[b]NASB[/b]
1 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.
3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.
10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.
11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.
12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the (X)edification of the church.
13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.
18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
21 In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.
22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation Let all things be done for edification.
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;
28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.
30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;
32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;
33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.


Quote:
[b]NIV[/b]
1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints.



Quote:
I'm just curious because I've been agonizing lately at nights... At the state of unsaved believers in the congregation, as well as the state of saved believers who seem satisfied with living in time, for time, rather than living in eternity, for eternity.

I do lose much sleep... I attend school full-time during the days and work at nights... I will be exhausted, and I just want to sleep when I come home, but I'll be wide awake and toss and turn in bed for hours thinking about these things.

I don't know what's going on with me. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind? Just end up weeping and crying when I talk about God with fellow believers.

Perhaps I'm just looking for encouragement... I don't know, this post turned into a rant. I'm sorry.


Brother, I weep with you. You will certainly be in my prayers. It is quite overwhelming to see so many people dying in sin! This world is growing worse and worse. The light of the Church is often "hidden under a bushel" as sectarian dogma separates the Body of Christ as many often spend more time debating doctrine than spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ.

As a teenager, I remember walking down the halls of my public high school feeling like a stranger and pilgrim in this world. I remember feeling like I didn't belong, but also feeling brokenhearted over the condition of a world that ignores Christ. Yet all was not lost! By God's grace, I was able to help introduce people to Christ -- many of whom are still serving the Lord to this day (and some of whom are actually in ministry now). This lonely feeling (of being a pilgrim and stranger) continues to this day -- but so do the opportunities!

Let me encourage you to continue weeping over this lost and dying world and a broken Church that is hiding its true potential via distractions. Of course, this often makes us feel lonely. But be encouraged: You are not alone! The King and Creator of the Universe is within you! Besides that, this fallen world has other people who are carrying that same light of Christ! In addition, our Lord actually felt that same feeling of loneliness. He left Heaven to walk this Earth as a man. He was rejected by all...and even killed by His own beloved people. So, he understands what it feels like to be alone. Yet...we are not alone! He is with us...always! History is already written, because our Lord sits in Eternity! He knows the End from the Beginning and even makes it known (Isaiah 46:10)! Be encouraged, brother! His yoke is easy...and His burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30).

:-)


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Christopher

 2009/10/2 13:51Profile
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Dear One,
First of all, the grace and peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus' name, Amen.
I can't prove it from scripture but you may be feeling some of the Lord's grief at the state of people who congregate to 'worship' Him.

What to do? Why not set some time apart to seek Him, perhaps He's calling you into a deeper walk with Him? Or He could show you that it's the enemy who's stealing your precious rest time and how to deal with him...

As to your question about prophecy, here's my little understanding of it.
Prophecy has been described as 'fore-telling' and 'forth-telling'. Obviously, the earlier description is what most folks think when they hear the word. E.g. Acts 11:28, Acts 21:10-11, Acts 27:10

Forth-telling, on the other hand, is inspired utterance leading for exhortation, edification and comfort. E.g. I Cor 14:3. No predictions or anything of the sort but you just know that God Almighty is speaking to His people.

Dear Father, i thank you for calling us your own. I ask for this precious sheep of yours that you draw him close to you. Give him seeing eyes, hearing ears and a wise and understanding heart. That he may come to know the hope of your calling for him, that he may come to know more of your ways as you showed them to your friend, Abraham.
Blessed be your high and holy name, Lord.
I ask this in name of Jesus of Nazareth. Amen.


_________________
Tolu

 2009/10/2 16:06Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Quote:
IWantAnguish asked:
Is the gift of prophecy the gift to see upcoming events in the future, or is it a gift of God opening His heart to an individual?

Or is it both?



First I have to say, I absolutely enjoyed FireinmyBones1 reply to you! Oh to be a friend of God!

Back to prophecy.... yes and yes. and also, i haven't looked ahead to see who answered what. you may already have your answer.

The best example of prophesy to me is explained these verses:

[i]But he who prophesies speaks to men words of edification, encouragement and comfort.[/i]
1 Cor 14.3 WEY

But if all prophesy, and an unlearned man or an unbeliever enter, he will be convinced by all, and he will be set right by all. [b]Thus the secrets of his heart will be revealed,[/b] and then he will fall on his face, and he will worship God and say, Truly God is among you.[/i]
1 Cor 14.24-25 WEY

[i]But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the profit of all.[/i] 1 Cor 12.7

"the secrets of his heart will be revealed," that is the crux of what prophesy is - the hearer hearing what Jesus speaks to him or her. Because the Holy Spirit speaks what He hears from Jesus (John 16.13). You were obedient to the Spirit for the profit of all for edification, encouragement, and comfort.

Also, I do not believe the Spirit will reveal your sins (unless He's warned and warned you). One Sunday at church, the lord spoke through the pastor's wife to the church paraphrased, "I have warned you and warned you about betting on the horses. I have begged you to bet on the White Horse but you haven't. No one knows who you are but if you lay one more bet down, I will reveal you to the whole church next Sunday."

Honey, you could have heard a pin drop in that place! Guess what though? Sadly, the next Sunday was standing room only. People who never came attended to hear someone's sins revealed. I guess God scared that person right into deliverance because nothing was revealed the next Sunday and quite a few thought it was a wasted trip. That has been the only time in 30 yrs that I almost heard someone's sins revealed and God gave them a HUGE warning first. THAT is how gracious our God is!!! But in reality that prophecy meant for someone else revealed the contents of other peoples heart! That is how God works too!

Sidebar: If and when you go somewhere to pray for someone, pray when you first get there. Because if you talk and talk and then pray; if the Lord does speak something, the people will attribute it NOT to God but to you being there and being privy to that information (whether you were or not). so if you get the prayer out of the way and the Lord speaks, then they cannot gainsay nor resist you or the Lord!!

God bless,


_________________
Lisa

 2009/10/2 19:13Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Gift of Prophecy?

Quote:
Is the gift of prophecy the gift to see upcoming events in the future, or is it a gift of God opening His heart to an individual? Or is it both? I'm just curious because I've been agonizing lately at nights... At the state of unsaved believers in the congregation, as well as the state of saved believers who seem satisfied with living in time, for time, rather than living in eternity, for eternity. I do lose much sleep... I attend school full-time during the days and work at nights... I will be exhausted, and I just want to sleep when I come home, but I'll be wide awake and toss and turn in bed for hours thinking about these things. I don't know what's going on with me. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind? Just end up weeping and crying when I talk about God with fellow believers. Perhaps I'm just looking for encouragement... I don't know, this post turned into a rant. I'm sorry.



Just curious. What about all of what you are feeling caused you to think of this particular question about prophecy?

By the way, there is a place where we intercede for the lost in which we begin to feel (I believe) the heart of God toward these people. We feel His love and compassion for them and our heart breaks at their lost condition. This in itself is not bad, but we cannot live there. El was right. The joy of the Lord is our strength.


_________________
Travis

 2009/10/3 19:52Profile





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