The following statement from Finney's Systematic Theology should alone cause us great concern-[i]"The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christs obedience to the law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption."[/i]That strikes at the very heart of the Gospel.Consider also these words from Finney-"Whenever he sins, he must, for the time being, cease to be holy. This is self-evident. [b]Whenever he sins, he must be condemned; he must incur the penalty of the law of God[/b] ... If it be said that the precept is still binding upon him, but that with respect to the Christian, the penalty is forever set aside, or abrogated, I reply, that to abrogate the penalty is to repeal the precept, for a precept without penalty is no law. It is only counsel or advice. [b]The Christian, therefore, is justified no longer than he obeys, and must be condemned when he disobeys[/b] or Antinomianism is true ... In these respects, then, [b]the sinning Christian and the unconverted sinner are upon precisely the same ground[/b] (p. 46)."Of course that would render Paul's words of there being no more condemnation in Romans 8 as nothing more than a lie.As I have said before, Finney had more in common with the philosopher Immanuel Kant than he did with Orthodox Christianity as they both viewed Christ as only a Moral example to be followed, but little more.
Yes Finney didn't believe in OSAS but that doesn't make him a heretic. Just because He said a Christian is condemned if he sins (murders or commits adultery for example) and therefore needs to repent does not make him a heretic. Was David condemned when He committed adultery and murder? Yes. Did David need to repent? Yes. The same goes for any Christian. Peter denied the Lord and was in danger of being denied by the Lord. Peter repented. If a Christian sins, they must repent or perish Luke 13:3Finney did teach Perseverence of the Saints. He said that if a believer sins and falls under condemnation, God will bring him to repentance. He said all those who have been saved will persevere unto the end. If they sin and come under condemnation, they will repent.I personally disagree with his view of Peresverence of the Saints, but I do agree with his view of conditional security. We are saved from God's wrath as long as we are not doing anything listed in 1 Cor 6:9-10 for example.
Of course that would render Paul's words of there being no more condemnation in Romans 8 as nothing more than a lie.
Brother it comes down to one point, did or did not Finney deny that Christ's death paid for the sins of His people APART from their obedience? Or did he(Finney) teach that in order to be justified, one had to be sanctified?If he taught that, then he is no different than the Judaizers who taught that one had to keep the Law in order to be a Christian. You know the ones Paul tells that they have fallen from grace and might as well emasculate themselves.
Finney did not teach that you needed to obey the law (the Torah) to be saved. That is what the Judiazers did and it was condemned in Galatians and refuted by Paul in Romans.Finney taught that to be saved, a person must repent and believe. To repent is to change your mind about sinning and to believe is to trust in Christ. Even some Calvinists believe in repentance. Not all Calvinists are antinomians.
I don't think I misrepresented him at all
Do you really think that Finney is a heretic because he said that if a believer commits adultery or murder (violates the law of God) that they are condemned until they repent?Do you think that if a believer commits adultery and murder, they are still going to Heaven? If so, what about 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and 1 John 3:15?Or do you think that a true believer would not commit adultery and murder? If so, what about King David??Suppose a believer simply tells an intentional lie. The law says thou shalt not bear false witness. According to Revelation 21:8 all liars will go to hell. Doesn't that mean "all non-Christian liars" will, but Christian liars will go to Heaven?If a believer does sin or breaks the law of God (commits adultery or murder) don't they need to repent according to Luke 13:3? Or are they forgiven before they repent? If you are forgiven before you repent, was Jesus wrong??
Again, prove that you are not a liar.
I said that because Finney viewed Christ's [u]death and obedience[/u] as only sufficient for Himself
The bottom line is that we(you and I) will never agree on Finney as we start from two very different views of man. Yours is a more Pelagian view(man is morally able and unstained by the fall), and mine is more Pauline(there are none that do good).That is the main point of all of this. If man is not able, then He needs more than an example.
SALVATION BY GRACE DOES NOT DISPENSE WITH A RETURN TO FULL OBEDIENCE AS A CONDITION OF SALVATION. There is a class of scripture texts which have been quoted by antinomians in support of the doctrine, that salvation is not conditionated upon personal holiness, or upon a return to full obedience. It has been found very convenient, by many who were lovers of sin, and never conscious of personal holiness, to adopt the idea of an imputed holiness, contenting themselves with an outward righteousness imputed to them, instead of submitting by faith to have the righteousness of God wrought in them. Unwilling to be personally pious, they betake themselves to an imputed piety.
Do you really think that Finney is a heretic because he said that if a believer commits adultery or murder (violates the law of God) that they are condemned until they repent?
Do you think that if a believer commits adultery and murder, they are still going to Heaven?
are they forgiven before they repent?
Again you prove yourself either a liar or just ignorant.
You are a slanderer
You should just stop your false accusations before you continue putting yourself in a deeper hole and continue to make yourself look ignorant or as a liar.
_________________Paul Frederick West