SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )

Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927


It's not us, it's nothing we can do on the outside to make us righteous, it's what HE'S doing on the inside.

Brother, I think what Eli is pointing out is that it is not the [b]infusion[/b] of righteousness (sanctification, or "what He's doing on the inside") that makes us acceptable to God, it is the [b]imputed[/b] righteousness of Christ. It is what He has done [b]outside[/b] of us that makes us righteous.

Of course, this is not to say that sanctification isn't important, it is just not the ground of our justification, or what makes us acceptable to God. We are not justified because we are sanctified, we are sanctified because we are justified.

With care in Christ,

Taylor Otwell

 2009/10/1 9:04Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


[b]Psalm 51[/b]

1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

 2009/10/1 10:26Profile

 Re: Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

To me, Zac's message was conveying, not putting GOD in a box of our own making - extracted from our own convictions.
Example - the Christmas example.

The problem I find with us humans is that each of us have a different belief of what LOVE "looks like".

I see Jesus clearing the temple - calling the Pharisees and Herod some not so "loving" names, Yet He so loved the world.
The same applies to all of His Apostles and His Saints & prophets from the O.T. that had His Spirit working through them.

Walking in the Spirit is not anything [b]we[/b] have in mind to do or say - but again - it is walking in 'complete' dependence on Him to give the words, thoughts, feelings over issues, etc..

I see Jesus as the gentlest of Shepherds and Him saying that He Only does what the Father does through Him or says 'through' Him.
He only spoke what the Father told Him to say.
He said, "My words are not mine, but the Father's."
And we know that GOD 'is' Love - not just loving - yet, Jesus got angry and said things and called names that 'we' would call unloving if it came from our pastor or friends.
That's the difference I see in this message by Zac. GOD is not in our box and we're to treat every situation as He would, by His Spirit and not our own and not how we believe all things should be.

We can't do Zac's message as "think this one out" alone, with our brains alone.

As with Jesus' example when He was here, each person & situation we meet takes that wisdom from Above to know how to respond - Just as He did.

 2009/10/1 12:30


Forgive me for posting again, but as soon as I finished that post, all of these memories of the Gospels were flooding in, of how Jesus' 'walked'.

He 'surprised' His disciples & enemies so many times by doing things that were not according to what was 'kosher' at the time - and that was because by dependence on the Father through His Spirit - he saw 'through' each individual or crowd that He dealt with.

That's what's missing in the 'church' -- that dependency on His Spirit, to 'operate' as He did - by being totally dependent as a little child, for Him to give us His wisdom, in each situation - with each decision and with whomever we're dealing with.

Jesus was Amazing on earth - but He is our only example of how to do our lives [b]in[/b] Him.

 2009/10/1 12:46

Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640


Excellent and needed message for the Church.

SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/10/1 13:44Profile

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


That's the difference I see in this message by Zac. GOD is not in our box and we're to treat every situation as He would, by His Spirit and not our own and not how we believe all things should be.

Very good. I see this principle close up very often, especially when it comes to sharing the Good News. As I mature in God, I see myself becoming more and more attuned to the promptings of the Spirit, and thus increasingly cautious about before whom I am to cast my pearls (see Matt. 7:6). But how in the world can I know who are dogs and who qualify as swine? I am reminded not to judge, lest I too be judged by the same measure. Yet here, the Lord cautions us to be judicious in our sharing of the gospel. How do I square Matthew 7:6 with Mark 16:15?

When I was younger, I was much more liberal in broadcasting my version of the gospel to everyone I came in contact with. This was because a legalistic preacher put a guilt trip on me for being lukewarm if I didn't witness to at least 20 people a day. The same with praying. They would say your tempertature in God is directly proportionate to how much time you spend on your knees in fervent prayer. And thus, they put condemnation on young believers and strap a load of religious zeal on their backs much heaver than the previous load of sin they once bore.

All of this is due to going by the letter instead of the spirit, of not teaching people to grow by listnening to the spirit behind the letter. Once I began listening to the spirit, I discovered there were certain people God was forbidding me to share the gospel with. Other times, I would be prompted to share with a perfect stranger. And the results were remarkable; I was blessed! It was no longer a drudgery of "witnessing" and "praying" against my affections. Speaking of prayer, I have never been more blessed in my walk than when I ceased trying to pray 3 hours a day, and just got real with God in my spirit. I discovered that when I gave up laboring for a set amount of hours each day, God granted me the grace to know what it truly means to pray without ceasing...and I found it was effortless.

This is why I felt the need to promote this most important message in such a public way. Some of us may not understand the significance of such a message now, but I say wait a few years. Wait until you finally give up trying to please God and going by the letter (of either the written Word of God, or what some preacher told you in a book or sermon), and learn at last to hear the voice of the gentle spirit behind the letter and "rest" in submission - when we reach this blessed point, the message of truth in this sermon will transform itself into a blessed oasis for your soul.

Paul Frederick West

 2009/10/1 14:06Profile

Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK


Jesus-is-God wrote:

Truth is as I understand it - If Christ indeed indwells us by His Spirit, then we are no longer under "the letter of the law" but are to 'walk' as Jesus did while on earth - Him being our Example of how to walk in 100% dependence on GOD through or by The Spirit.

Amen to this.

As I was driving home earlier after listening to this message I was thinking the same thing. It is our dependance on Jesus by the Spirit that must be central. He is to be the centre of everything and in all things have the preeminence. Colossians 1:18.

If we have Jesus at the centre of our life and dependance, looking and submitting to him, allowing His life to dominate we will keep from the two extremes of legalism and license.

Thanks Jesus-is-GOD for putting this in a very clear way.

As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:6-10


 2009/10/1 16:13Profile


Good word Paul & Dave.

Praying to maintain that minute by minute dependence.

Thank you!

 2009/10/2 11:44

Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215


The first I've listened to of his as well. Excellent message. I've enjoyed study of the NC as much as any I've studied in the last number of years.
The message brings you closer to understanding what Paul meant when he says we labour to enter into His rest.

 2009/10/2 12:33Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy