SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

Saints, this is one of the most important messages I've ever heard. It is truly a diamond among the many gemstones here on SermonIndex, and I'm only going public like this because I sense such a desperate need for Christians to understand what brother Zac puts forth in this "message of messages" in my opinion.

Everyone please take some time to hear this message. Especially those who are heavy laden in their daily walks and seek an oasis from all the strife and contention and scripture wars. This will bless you. Those of you who know me, know that I don't usually make a thread out of a single sermon...but with this one I had to make an exception. Brother Zac really outdos himself here...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=13571]Three Marks of New Covenant Life[/url]


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/9/29 12:49Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


 Re: Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR


Excellent! Thank you for bringing it forth.

 2009/9/29 23:48Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re: Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

You're right Paul. This is one message that all of us need to listen to. I suggest you pin it to the top of the section for everyone to see. Thanks.

 2009/9/30 0:13Profile









 Re:

Yes, it was good. Thanks.

 2009/9/30 1:47









 Re: Outstanding Message by Zac Poonen - MUST HEAR

Quote:
It is truly a diamond among the many gemstones here on SermonIndex, and I'm only going public like this because I sense such a desperate need for Christians to understand what brother Zac puts forth in this "message of messages" in my opinion.


Yes.

Thank you! ... from a 'spirit of gratitude' :)

 2009/9/30 4:46
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

For a few years now, I've been mulling over in the spirit the contrasts between the spirit and the letter of the law and how they relate to each other. We see the introduction to all this in Matthew 5, where Jesus begins His ministry by contrasting the two. He begins with the law, [i]"Ye have heard it said that..."[/i] and then follows up with [i]"...[b]but[/b] I say unto you.."[/i] It's the perfect preface to what the entire New Testament and Better Covenant would be foundationed on, with Paul's elucidation in his subsequent epistles.

I've also noticed that in Matthew 5 - "Unless your [i]rightouesness[/i] exceed the [i]righteousness[/i] of the scribes and pharisees.." - that there are two kinds of righteousness: the righteousness that comes by the law, and the righteousness that comes by the spirit. In both, obedience is the qualifier. Everyone understands what it means to be obedient, but when it comes to by which righteousness factor - it is here where we begin to run into problems. Major problems! The ramifications of life and death, of righteousness and condemnation lay in the wake.

This message is an excellent primer for those who have ears to hear. It is such an important topic.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/9/30 11:49Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

My beloved brethren,

The righteousness which we must be found in is not the righteousness which comes by the law, nor a righteousness which comes by the Spirit, but the righteousness which comes by [i]faith[/i]. If anyone has any contention with what I say I reply that the Scriptures know of no other way of righteousness. It is not [i]my[/i] obedience, whether "legal" or "spiritual", that makes me just in the judgment of God, but it is by [i]"the obedience of [u]one[/u] that many shall be made righteous."[/i] (Romans 5:19)

Our salvation depends solely on a righteousness imputed by faith. The gospel is good [i]news[/i], not good rules. News is something to be believed. The gospel is good news to be believed. When a person rests in faith upon the good news of Jesus Christ crucified for their sins they are justified from all things. A righteousness that is not their own is given to them (Romans 3:22), though they are in fact ungodly (Romans 4:5). Apart from this there is no hope, nor is there any possibility for genuine sanctification in love and grace which solely springs from this source.

Why do we see the holy law of God so poorly? We speak of it as if it is a earthy thing which needs to be replaced. Do we not see that [i]"the law is spiritual: but I am carnal"[/i] (Romans 7:14)? Could it be that it is not the law that has the problem, but us? Yes, it is not the law, but us, who are carnal. Therefore we need to be justified by faith in Christ, without the deeds of the law. May the law of God be honored and magnified in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

With deep love and care,
-Eli


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2009/9/30 14:09Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Good post brother Eli. Amen!

Brethren,

The crux of Zac Poonen's message here is not salvation by one's own righteousness versus Christ's - or even justification through the righteousness that comes by obeying the letter versus the spirit - but rather the contrast between Old and New Covenant life.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/9/30 16:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:
nor a righteousness which comes by the Spirit, but the righteousness which comes by faith.



Hi dear Brother.

Would you mind if I say that it's both? Or say what I think, as best as I can.
Obedience is in the N.T., starting with Jesus' obedience, but it is obedience by faith in and by the Spirit. Romans 8 & Galatians 5 speak of "walking in the Spirit."
Yes, it takes more faith to "walk in the Spirit" as Jesus did. All that we do should be "in the Spirit" or by the Spirit. That's the obedience He fulfilled and displayed as an Example to us.
What has happened to "the church" is that we lost what Paul meant by "walking in the spirit" and not according to the Law. So that causes the two extremes we see. Those who say that "we need not obey His Commandments" and those who say "we must follow the law" - Both are right and wrong.
Truth is as I understand it - If Christ indeed indwells us by His Spirit, then we are no longer under "the letter of the law" but are to 'walk' as Jesus did while on earth - Him being our Example of how to walk in 100% dependence on GOD [i]through or by[/i] The Spirit.
He said, 'The words that I speak and the works that I do are not mine but The Father's and I obey The Father.' That's 100% non-autonomous walking. He 'did nothing of Himself' while here - setting the Example for us - but would look up to GOD for what to say & do. He'd spend hours in prayer. Everything He did was for our example. His thoughts stayed on/abided in The Father, so that He had the Father's thoughts - thus, the Father's words and actions. Constant obedience through the Spirit. But we can't do that so easily because it demands a dying to self and what self wants to think and do.
When we walk as He did - waiting on the mind of GOD & Christ and use only The WORD given, as He did while on earth - then we will naturally fulfill the "law of the Spirit". Rom 8:2
Jesus broke the Sabbath laws, according to the Pharisees, yet He was in complete obedience at that moment to the Father.
It's 100% dependence on His Spirit. Walking in the Spirit takes our stopping, asking and listening for His Guidance and Trusting [or faith-in] Him by His Spirit to speak - "My sheep hear My Voice & follow" - all else or anything less is flesh.
We start by baby steps in Faith [a verb] and then we 'grow' in that utter dependence. The more we 'stop-ask & listen', not leaning on the flesh and renewing our minds by His Word, we grow into His Image that was here on earth.
He does want our "will" involved and there is a price to pay - our 'selves' - and that is why we have these two extremes -- The "Do Nothing - He'll do it all" crowd and the "Do the Law" crowd - when it is written that it is neither of those.
His Salvation is a New & Living Way - He is our Only Example of how it's to be walked out. Looking Up for His Guidance and be-ing filled with His Spirit & Word - Being careful to always remember that Jesus [i]is[/i] The Word of GOD.
The entire O.T. and N.T. is His Voice - as is the guidance of His Spirit within us - otherwise it's just another "do or don't do" Religion, as I believe that you and we do fear.
But the fault does lie with us - we're either too busy doing our own thing [even if it's good works] and not listening [John 16:13], or we're trying to follow the letter of the law = walking by the flesh.
We're only out of obedience when we're not 'listening' --- but we're growing - precept upon precept in this walk of dependence on & obedience to His Spirit. That's where we need Faith in Him the most in these days. Gal 5:5
This is how I received this message by Zac. I was taking it that he was saying Rom 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."


Hope I understood you & Zac correctly.

His Love to you & yours.

 2009/9/30 19:18









 Re:

Yes, we accept God's salvation in Christ through faith, but the outworkings of this is through His Spirit in us.

It's the LOVE of Christ and His righteousness! This sums up our Christian faith. That HE layed down His life for us, so that we are no longer under the old covenant, but the new and better one! The covenant of LOVE. It was divine love that led Christ to the cross, not the law... He came to fullfill the law. In the same way, we are not under the mosaic law, but the new law of LOVE. We do things from divine LOVE. The law or our flesh cannot make us love, it's the Spirit of Christ in us, fulliflling the law, which can enable us to live according to the new covenant/commandments (that sum up the old). He loved us and it is HIS love in us which frees us from bondage of sin... we lay down our lives and keep the law because of what Christ did for us, through His perfect love. We can say, Make me like Jesus, conform me into HIS image, let me move according to Calvary love, because of HIS love given to us by His Spirit.
It's not us, it's nothing we can do on the outside to make us righteous, it's what HE'S doing on the inside.
Praise God for Zac Poonen's message, it was the first of his I've heard, but not the last! :)

Matthew 22:37-39, Romans 8:2, Romans 8:15, 1 John 4:18, Galatians 5:6, 1 John 4:7-12, 1 John 3:16, John 15:12-13, Romans 13:8-10

 2009/10/1 8:00





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy