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 Thoughts on Pentecost....will we attain it?

Pentecost to attain once more?

The act of Pentecost by the Lord was primarily the birth of the church it self, the beginning of the temple of God on Earth. It was spiritual revolution at the highest level that could exist. It was the Covenant fulfilled of the ages, for Jesus was "slain before the foundation of the Earth."

In effect, there has always been but this one covenant, and Pentecost was a fulfillment of it, as was the death and Resurrection of Jesus. This was WHY he came; to send the comforter and teacher in the Holy Spirit within the many offspring of men and women that he desired as children!

Pentecost was but a link in the chain of redemption that will culminate in New Jerusalem, when Fire Lake is sealed with sin and the sinner, as will be eternal Life in her.

So, in the eternal sense, there will never be another Pentecost, but as long as we are on this earth, there will be pentecostal experience,; and your right, there are criteria. The question is, HOW? Is it but the mere formality of understanding that God requires holiness, and a repentant heart?....and because we would desire it?, and that we would automatically obtain it by the virtue of being a son or daughter alone?

Of course not, for all most of the ages within the holy remnant have strove to obtain it, but so few have! Thereby the maxim quest; HOW?

I believe that Pentecost must always begin with the individual...and a Sovereign joining then must occur...a perfect storm, if you will. Most,... Most of those who desire Pentecost desire her for their own RELIGIOUS attainment, and the honor that would naturally come from those who will perceive him or her as a "great one", or a spiritual conqueror.

Ambition is the twin sister of pride, so I would ask you....WHY? why do you desire Pentecost?...and the true answer, the answer that only Jesus would know would mostly be for other reasons than HIS glory, and His honor!

The flames of fire upon those few, were always there. They were ordained long before the 50th day to be vessels to hold His glory....they only manifested it, to be seen by others, on that day. The fire burns, and purifies...and it leaves it's pots blackened, and mournish...


We do not even know there names....[ I guess the apostles were there...] They are obscure, little people...hidden by the holy glare of Pentecost and the Apostles, but were some of the most famous in all of eternity. If we endure, we will talk with them, Lord willing.

I do not believe that we should seek Pentecost. I think we should seek JESUS! This is the problem, find men and women, who will seek HIM, faithfully, and HIS interests alone. Night and day, Day and Night. I know there are responsibilities ....diapers, food to be cooked, babies to be fed, bills to be paid....but I believe the 120 had those also...and yet they prevailed to be counted faithful! It is in the heart!....Not the circumstance!.

When we find those who are willing to cast their crowns down, and just be a brother or a sister unto the least of the brothers and sisters, AND PRAY....for the glory of Jesus to prevail in the EARTH and in their CITY!!!! then yes, He will answer with fire. This is what Pentecost also signified........A BURNT OFFERING!..unto the Lord.

If Pentecost did come, my fear is that most of you reading this would then assume that YOU were the one qualified to lead it!...or sure fight until you did. This is what I mean, and the reason that it never comes. You are a danger to Pentecost, for if He came, your ambitious heart would surely drive Him away.

We must be burnt out, stripped of our rights and perceptions of us being above; We are not. We are below, and a true servant always is. We cannot obtain this by discipline, or desire, but only by the enduring of real flames that lick away and consume our hateful and prideful selfishness and ambition.


If we are poor in spirit, and beg as the beggars that we are, perhaps he will grace us with the death and dying we need to become a good son or daughter, and thereby a good brother or sister to His family. Then he promised to resurrect the is the only group that gets to be.

For those of you who have been driven into the wilderness, rejected, isolated, slandered and forced into loneliness, while hanging on to the Lamb, without bitterness or complaining, there is a revival of Himself that will surely come, and the Bride that has made herself ready in this way, will surely be without spot or blemish.....and do greater works, as promised. This will be our Pentecost.

brother Thomas Watkins.

 2009/9/15 2:30

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481

 Re: Thoughts on Pentecost....will we attain it?

hi, i tremble to answer this post. i was weeping over my sinful condition and confessing my many sins when i told God how i did not fit in with the christian people very well for i was a good sinner and not a very good example of what a christian should be and that i needed special help from God just to survive as a believer... at this moment i began to speak in a language that was strange to me .... it flowed like a river from within me... as a baptist who never was around pentecostal people or churches i was very ignorant of what was happening in me... that was over 40 years ago and Jesus has lived bigger in me every year.. i thank Him for this gift but mostly for his love toward me that He would indure the cross for such a worm.jimp

 2009/9/15 2:59Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Thoughts on Pentecost....will we attain it?

So, in the eternal sense, there will never be another Pentecost, but as long as we are on this earth, there will be pentecostal experience,; and your right, there are criteria. The question is, HOW? Is it but the mere formality of understanding that God requires holiness, and a repentant heart?....and because we would desire it?, and that we would automatically obtain it by the virtue of being a son or daughter alone?

To me this question is a bit like asking will I ever have another chance to go swimming while I am currently doing the breast stroke in the middle of a pristine mountain lake.

In 1989 I experienced pentecost just as I read in Acts 2, Acts 10:44, Acts 19:2. Up to that point I was born again, yet struggled with a lack of power over some besetting sins in my life. I had a powerful conversion with a strong knowledge and witness of sins forgiven, but there was something lacking. That was a POWER over some particular strongholds that I did not seem to walk in.

After being baptized in the Holy Spirit, I found myself experiencing victory over these things as never before. As I have learned to walk in the Spirit, I have had fulfilled in me Galatians 5:16. I don't question whether there will be another pentecost. The Holy Spirit was poured out 50 days after passover in that first year of the early church for the purposes that Jesus taught in the latter part of the book of John, and He has never been removed. Praise God I live in pentecost and God is so good to have sent His Holy Spirit that we can have the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead DWELLING IN US!!! Hallelujah!!

When I was born again, I desired holiness because that is what a born again person desires. When your spirit is reborn (John 3) and you become a new creature in Christ, your regenerate spirit no longer desires sin in any way. What I lacked was the power that allowed me to walk it out, to allow my born again spirit to have supremacy over my flesh. Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, was the thing that gave me that power. It gave me the power to be a martyr, to lay my life down, in more ways than just one. We cannot limit this verse (Acts 1:8) to the mission field. Martyrs are not so because they laid their lives down on one occasion. They were martyrs long before their physical sacrifice. Holiness is the life of the Holy Spirit lived out through me as I walk this earth as a martyr, as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto Him.

Very thought provoking post Brother. I am blessed by it and encouraged this morning.


 2009/9/15 7:04Profile

 Re: Pentecost as revival...

twayneb RE:

I appreciated your comments and testimony Travis. I wanted to suggest that Pentecost , also being the birth of the church, will culminate in a like way at the maturity of the church...that endtime Bride spotless and holy. This, to me, is at the absolute core of REVIVAL; revival and Promise in these days of the end.

We do hear of the LATTER RAIN in scripture, greater than the former, and Jesus Himself prophesied of a time of "GREATER WORKS" than even His. These were accomplished by an "endowment of POWER!", that Jesus prophesied.

Luke 24:49
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high!"

So we see that POWER is a major function and affect of Pentecost.It is a connection with God in purifying FIRE that presents a TEMPLE that God speaks through, lives through, and Acts through.

Then we see that a mere 35 years later, apostasy, and lukewarmness,[ Romans, Corinthians] and further on 60 years later that Jesus called lukewarm...mildly warm, not white hot...that must be rejected....vomited away from Him.] [ Revelation ] Therefore we see that Pentecost must be is not a given, and you can LOSE Pentecost; obviously.

Pentecost, [ and I appreciated your insight that this gave us power to be transformed, not speak in tongues and prophesy necessarily ] was the first flood of pure Heaven given to man, and looking at it in this way, we must always strive to reposition ourselves, as a body, to be worthy to become as the first ones did.

Pentecost as revival; then , as you experienced, much of the battle is won. Yes, we also must come together in mind, one accord, even to the least of the brethren. For this to occur, the Clergy/Priest Professional class must step aside, and for now, this is indeed a formidable barrier to Pentecost today.

It will come to pass, no doubt, but I'm afraid there is some brokeness and humility coming, that must separate those willing to become just another brother or sister, and those who see themselves as their leaders and ministers.

He will come to those of a pure heart.


 2009/9/15 13:50

Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59

 Re: Thoughts on Pentecost....will we attain it?

(from the outset pardon my spelling, I just dont' have time to spell check.)

Every once in a while, I google speaking in tongues to see what it going on the Christianland.

Today I thought I would see if anyone out there was teaching people HOW to speak in tongues. I did this also about a year ago, and since then there is a new article on ehow on How to Speak in Tongues.

Really there is some reletivly good advice, but it's the last comment that I have a disagrement with.

Step 3 Let go. Trying too hard will do nothing but frustrate you. Speaking in tongues is not something that can be learned or practiced. It is not a skill to be actively pursued. Rather, it is a gift offered to you that must be passively accepted.

WHAT IF, that is not correct? In fact what if all the manifestations of the spirit can be learned and practiced, and are actually skills that God wants us to actively persue.

I state that this is the truth and this is the case. Perhaps if you do not speak in tongues, it's simply because you've been waiting around to receive something you were already given, when you first believed.

BUT if you have been taught, that you must ask for it, or that it's a special gift, or some get it and some don't, and you wait around for God to give you something you already have, chances are you will not "operate" it.

Or also if you have been taught or have come to believe you have to be real holy and perfect before you get it, you may not operate it either.

Notice I have used the word "operate" in regards to speaking in tongues. This is because YOU are the one that has to OPERATE what God has already given you.

Now if I was to drive a back-hoe up to you and jump out and tell you to dig a ditch, would you necessarily know how to OPERATE that back-hoe? No not necessarily.

Speaking in tongues is no different than a back-hoe, it's given to you to give you the power to get a tough job done. But you have to know where it's parked and how to operate the power correctly and appropriately. Not only that, but the more you practice the better you get at it.

Just like theire are heavy equipment operators, God meant us to be "holy spirit operators".

Now in order for you to learn to operate your holy spirit properly, there are a few misunderstandings you may have, that need to be cleared up.

1. Speaking in tongues is not a gift.

Now you've probably heard it called that before. But the truth is that no where in God's word does it say speaking in tongues a.k.a. praying in or by the spirit is a "gift".

The misunderstanding comes from not understanding that the word "gifts" in 1 Cor 12:1 is usually in the KJV in itallics and is not in the text.

1 Cor 12:1 [b]Now concerning spiritual [i]gifts[/i], brethren, I would not have you ignorant. [/b]

Again the word "gifts" is not in the text. The word translated "spiritual" here is the Greek word "pneumatikon", meaning spiritual or supernatural workings or manifestations, evidences, operations.

Paul said he don't want you ignorant, but Satan sure does, you know why? Because it'st he operation of these supernatural works that devistate his kingdom. So sure he really wants you all to be ignorant of them. To misunderstand and or not even believe in them. And if he can't get that then he'll have you misuse them.

As Paul goes on in the chapter he lists NINE manifestations or evidences of the one and the self same spirit that is given to EVERY MAN for profit of one kind or another.

Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift, it's a MANIFESTATION of the "gift" of holy spirit.

1 Cor 12:7 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to EACH one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge IN the same Spirit;

9 To another faith IN the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing IN the same Spirit;

To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

[b]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to EACH man severally as he (the man) will.

HOLD ON RIGHT THERE! Someone is thinking that it says that he gives one person this and another person that. This leads us to another misunderstanding, that someone might be given speaking in tongues and another person may not.

However this don't hold water if you just continue to read all the chapters here regarding the subject.

Remember what Jesus said:

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; [b]they shall speak with new tongues;[/b]

And what does Paul also say, later in Corinthians?

1 Cor 14:

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual (pneumatikos)...

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues,[b] except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.[/b]

(speaking in tongues with the manifestation of interpretaton is equal to prophecy.)

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous (DESIREOUS) of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit,(SPEAK IN TONGUES) and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit,(SING IN TONGUES) and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt (SPEAK IN TONGUES AND)bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at [b]thy giving of thanks[/b], seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 [b]For thou verily givest thanks well,[/b] but the other is not edified.

18 [b]I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:[/b]

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Isa 28:11,12

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

For ye may all prophesy one by one, (as well as speak in tonuges one by one, which he said in verse 27) that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 [b]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[/b]

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39 [b]Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.[/b]

40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I picked out the verses dealing with tongues, to show that it was God's will that they desired these things in their life.

Another misunderstanding is that people are often taught that in order to speak in tongues, God takes over and makes you speak in tongues. Or that you have to have an "experience", or be in some emotional state.

But what was the last very we read there? It said "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." That means that the holy spirit God has ALREADY given you is YOURS. You must be the one to OPERATE it.

So then speaking in tongues is completely and totally at the freedom of your own will to manifest, or operate or not operate, do or not do, speak or not speak.

BUT the question is HOW do you operate it? HOW do you speak it forth? HOW do you manifest it?

Here is the key.

FIRST realize and acknowledge that you have been given the gift of the holy spirit, and it lives inside you. Jesus called this being indued with power from on high. YOU HAVE THE POWER LATENT WITHIN YOU ALREADY! Every single believer has had the power, and only did not manifest it because they were not taught correctly.

SECOND, take a moment to considder the mechanics of speach. When you speak normally in order to talk, you move your lips, your mouth, your throat and tongue. YOU choose to start and you choose to stop.

Speaking in tongues is EXACTLY like this. In that you must begin to move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue, you must begin to form words with your mouth.

That you speak is YOUR BUSINESS, but what you speak is the holy spirits business. If you will but begin to move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue and formulate words, speaking in tongues will come out.

I have correctly taught quite a few people from all different back grounds about the truth of speaking in tongues being a manifestation, they must opperate by the freedom of their will.

In teaching these things I have had many people speak in tonges. Catholics, BAPTISTS, and even small children.

Some times in order to get children to operate the manifestation, I will tell them to pretend to speak in another language. Children are great at this. If they are believers they will just simply open their mouth and start to speak, thinking they are pretending to speak in another language, but it is genuine speaking in tongues.

I actually spoke in tongues before I ever even heard of it. I was a believer, I did have the holy spirit, and so I had the ability, becasue the ability is in that one and the self same spirit.

THE ABILTIY is already in the spirit you have been given. As well the eight other manifestations, however only speaking in tongues is an ability that can be used anywhere anytime, and primarily for your own personal private prayer life.

I do not go around speaking in tongues to people. That would be to misuse the manifestation. It if primarily for you in your private prayer life. But you choose to do or not to do it, and if you are going to do it, then you have to remember to do it. God never takes you over.

Another most important key in operating speaking in tongues, is that when you start you just do not pay attention to the words you are speaking.

In other words, don't let you mind talk you out of it. Your mind will try and tell you that it sounds like jibberish. Or your mind will tell you, "Are you really doing this, is this really speaking in tongues?"

Don't listen to your own head in that regard.

Like a baby, you may be clumsy at firsty and only speak a few words, but you just keep PRACTICING and moving your lips, mouth, throat and tongue, and ignore how it sounds "to you".

I will tell you a story about the most recent person that God led me to lead into speaking in tongues.

This is a little boy that I have been working with for 2 years. He was literally POSSESSED when I first met him and they said he had turrets syndrome.

But he wanted to be a Christian, and has been stuggeling to be a "good boy". WOW did that kid ever have a mouth on him and not a good one.

The other day we went for a drive, and I took him and his sister to a farm.

On the way they asked me if I could sing the Star Spangeld Banner, and I said yes and sang it for them.

They were laughing and thrilled. Then I sang "MY Country Tis of Thee", and when I was done I told them that the tune of that song was the national anthem of Britton and called God Save the Queen.

I then told them that every foreign country had it's own national anthem. They asked "what does foreign mean?"

I told them that is a country that most often speaks another language. They asked me if I could sing the Spanich National Anthem.

I said no I did not know Spanish. But they keep bugging me. Then I got this idea. I told my young friends that I could PRETEND to speak in Spanish and sing the Spanish National Anthem.

So I sang in tongues to the tune of my country Tis of Thee, God Save the Queen.

They thought that was great, and really thought it sounded like Spanish. Then I said "Why don't you try. My young friend started right away, and immediately spoke in tongues. His sister who is six could not do it.

Then we pretended to have a conversation in Spanish, with both of us speaking in tongues pretending like we were foriegners.

Now I never did tell him what he was doing, because he is in a situation right now, in regards to the State, that could get us both in hot water over this, with unbelievers.

He's just been taken off head meds in the last 2 months, and if he comes up to his teachers and says he's speaking in tongues, it might not be the best thing.

But eventually when God leads me to I will instruct him. He's always been interested in the power of God anyway, what he called "The Powers".

But ever since he did that that day, I have seen a dramitic change in him.

Friends, the word is so simple even a child need not err therein.

Speaking in tongues is a beautiful simple and easy thing for any believer to operate. EVERY believer since the first century has had the ability.

Friends, just because some people have misused the manifestation, does not make it any less valuable.

Speaking in tongues is what will help build you up so that you can learn to operate the other manifestations of the spirit.

We need these spiritual powers in order to be the overcomers God has called us to be.

I encourage you to try what I have discussed here. After all if you had a million dollars in the bank, wouldn't you utilize it? You already have IT IN YOU, but YOU must in simplicity move your lips, mouth, throat and tongue and bring it forth.

It's SO SIMPLE, that all you have to do is PRETEND to speak in another language, and it will come forth. God meant to make it that simple.

El Harris

 2009/9/15 14:59Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri


I know it seems that speaking in tongues is the one "Hot Button" issue that brings great debate in the body, and I am not sure why. To me it should not. The pentecostal experience is so central to the entirety of the New Testament. Everything that Jesus did He did as a man filled with the Holy Spirit. Everything the men and women of the early church did, they did empowered by the Holy Spirit. And, speaking in tongues was a very visible and consistent part of that experience.

I did not share my full testimony about coming into what we can call pentecost or being filled with the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I will fill you in on the rest of the details.

I was born into pentecost and what is typically called the "Latter Rain" (not to be confused with the latter rain movement) outpouring of the Holy Spirit. My Great Grandparents often spent time in the home of Charles and Sarah Parham. I grew up around people who spoke in tongues regularly, as well as people who lived very seperated lives of holiness that they attributed to a work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. They taught holiness as a result of a seperate and instantaneous work of grace called sanctification. You will find this a common theme among many pentecostal holiness people, who point to the Topeka outpouring as their roots. It was really a Methodist idea that came out of the Cane Ridge revival of the early 1800's, which is where Parham had his roots. I am not sure of it's history before that movement. It was often called the second work, or standing grace.

This sanctification doctrine was taught as the necessary prerequisite to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. What I found was that I could never in my own power be "sanctified" enough to merit the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. As hard as I tried to give all of my life to the Lord, to sanctify myself wholly unto Him, I always seemed to come a little bit short.

In 1989, I finally understood that the Holy Spirit is not poured out as a reward for a well sanctified life, but is given to give me power to live that sanctified life and to have victory over sin. This freed me to freely receive as it tore down a wall of incorrect doctrine that has stood in the way of my surrendering my own efforts and receiving by faith that which was freely given to me. You would have thought that I had never read the book of Galatians.

Anyway, I simply asked, and received and as I began to thank and praise the Lord, words began to form in my mind that seemed strange. Obviously I knew about speaking in tongues, but the mechanics of it were unknown to me. I simply said what came to my mind, and felt such a flood of the sweet presence of the Spirit of the Lord. I then felt like I wanted to sing (I grew up singing and love to sing). I began to sing in another tongue. Suddenly I realized I was not alone. A young lady next to me was also singing in tongues, the same song, same melody, same words, at the same time. I know now that God orchestrated that song so that I could never talk myself out of the reality of that experience.

I would say that the most powerful thing that the baptism of the Holy Spirit has done in my life has been the power to live the life of a martyr. The power to die to self and live out of the rivers of living water that flow from within. I live a very holy life by the world's, and 99% of the church's standards, but not because I have given myself a list of rules to follow and doggedly follow them in some self powered attempt to "be holy" I simply allow God to work in my the life of His Spirit and do what He prompts me. He brings His Word to life. I read the Bible and the author is right there with me to help me interpret. I see where I fall short from the Word and say, "Yes Lord". He speaks to me in my spirit and soul and says, "I am not pleased with that attitude, etc.", and I say, "Yes Lord." And, even in saying yes Lord, I am learning that apart from the power of the Holy Spirit I can never fulfill what I have said yes to.

I have come to learn that the Holy Spirit is a constant presence in my life. Like power coming form the generation plant, the Holy Spirit is always on. It is me that is on and off. I believe that I may pray in tongues any time I wish. Praise God, I wish to often because when I pray in tongues it is my spirit that prays, and since my born again spirit is in fellowship with the Holy Spirit (something that could not happen when I was not born again), I know that I pray the perfect wisdom of God over a situation. I also pray with my understanding (my own tongue). Both are important in the life of a believer. Either one in absence of the other is incomplete. Not bad, but simply incomplete.

I also believe that the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues listed as two of the nine in 1st Corinthians are given severally as God wills. So, I am not free to simply stand and speak in tongues in an assembly unless the Holy Spirit gives me the direction to do so. I personally believe that this was probably the primary confusion that caused Paul to need to teach the Corinthian church on this matter.

El, I know where you stand on the issue. Bro. Tom, I am not sure where you stand on this issue. I don't argue with anyone over it. It is my experience. I am just praising God today for a reminder of His power in me to cause me to live the life that I could not on my own. I praise Him for His constant presence. Jesus is so wonderful. The Holy Spirit of God is so wonderful. My heavenly Father is so wonderful. I just overflow in praise to Him for what He is doing in me. Wow!

Oh, one more thing Brothertom. I do believe that as believers experience pentecost, they will be compelled by the Spirit of God toward lives that exemplify the holiness of God. You are absolutely right in my opinion. Walking close to God WILL yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness which is holiness.

Praise God! God Bless you guys!


 2009/9/15 16:53Profile

 Re: Life of a martyr.....The power of Pentecost


Wow! Your testimony should be required reading for new converts. It was very convicting and free from the dogma and prejudice and pride sometimes associated with the Pentecostal movement. My point was that it was not the fact that you spoke in tongues that saved you, or proved that you were sanctified, but the fruit of the Spirit that emanated from a holy life.

Also, Paul makes a very clear assessment of the exclusivity of the holy right concerning those who may pride in this gift. "Do ALL speak in tongues?", and no, he was not referring to those as of inferior faith that hadn't quite progressed to superior faith. All do not speak in tongues, either by the Prophetic gift of prophesy, or in their prayer language.

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, as I knelt down on a street corner praying the "sinners prayer", as others laid hands on me to receive Him, in Boulder Colorado, on a cool March day in 1972. A flood of His Spirit entered me, and I was elevated into a surge of Heavenly love like a sweeping cloud. I just loved people with a passion that I could not bear. I was in a heavenly glow for weeks.

I immediately began to witness, that moment, and began to lead others to Christ; because I wanted them to know Jesus. 50 people or so came to Christ in that initial period.

I spoke in tongues later, and today, I do not think that I could survive without my prayer language. Yes, it is subject to my will, mostly. I have had experiences, such as in the vision or prophetic realm, where I spoke in His presence, and found I was speaking in tongues on the earth. It is a mystery.

I do not, however, see it as the keystone to salvation, or a badge of spirituality. Holiness and spiritual Power go hand in hand, not spiritual power and speaking in tongues, and it is here that the Pentecostals and Charismatics have erred, and divided Christ. I see Pentecost as the tongues of fire primarily, that convict of sin, righteousness, and judgement that divide, and compel souls to fall at HIS feet, and beg for mercy; to REPENT and BELIEVE!

You spoke of being able to have the POWER to live the life of a MARTYR. This, to me is the most profound gift of Pentecost, and let me give you my take on this .

With the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are constantly given over to His conviction to Bow, and surrender to He who has paid for our possession by Him; our redeemer! We now have the power to pick up our cross....which IS our DEATH......we must die in order for Him to live through us. There will not be TWO who sit upon the throne of our lives, but one. Will we crucify Jesus that we may live?, or, Will we die to ourselves, so that He will live through us.

This is the power to be a martyr, a living martyr; a CRUCIFIED ONE!

Paul said, that "Death works in me, but life in you!", and , "Behold, I die daily!".

In 2 Corinthians Chpt: 1..."We had the sentence of death WITHIN OURSELVES! that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead."

There it is. A life lived in Resurrection apostolic life; The life of a martyr....and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is given primarily so that we would have the power to do so; Not the hideous filth of prosperity and successful purpose as the anointing.

Anyway, Travis; I was impressed at how much we are alike, and I appreciate your heart, and direct unassuming style of testimony. WOW! what an inheritance....Much of that early history was lost. Hold on to what you can get ahold of; for the past will help us to guide our way in these dark days ahead. We are in the midst of the "Great falling Away", and God is yet dividing those who love the truth, and those who love their own way, be it religious or not.

 2009/9/20 10:46

Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


Dear Brothertom,

I normally do not comment on threads that touch on speaking in tongues to avoid useless arguments, but I just had to thank you for this statement...

Also, Paul makes a very clear assessment of the exclusivity of the holy right concerning those who may pride in this gift. "Do ALL speak in tongues?", and no, he was not referring to those as of inferior faith that hadn't quite progressed to superior faith. All do not speak in tongues, either by the Prophetic gift of prophesy, or in their prayer language.

...and this coming from one who does speak in tongues, who could have boasted about it to one like me who does not.

I praise God for you and for those like you.


 2009/9/20 11:38Profile

 Re: In the fire of tongues...........................

Leo wrote:

"...and this coming from one who does speak in tongues, who could have boasted about it to one like me who does not"....Leo

Thanks Leo...but it doesn't take an apostle to see that Christ likeness is the issue of maturity, not gifting or status of any kind. Sadly, the greatest apparitions and massacre of doctrine have came from the tongue speaking camp, and the Charismatics, with the likes of TBN, Benny Hinn, and the Word of faith Prosperity preachers who have blatantly made merchandise of God's heritage.

If we were looking to man, it certainly is not anything to be proud of. If you were looking to God, it is but a gift that was received, and who receives the honor from that?

What we are missing in our churches and pulpits is the true meaning of the tongues of become a living, purified vessel to contain the glory of become a temple where God would sit, and declare His glory Himself alive in His people.

We do not teach self denial, or repentance to be submitted to the fire, that we may die there, and lose our lives to gain His.....we teach our "BEST LIFE NOW..... and A PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE to overcome circumstance and situation to be successful in every arena in our lives.

For a good description of Pentecostal people, read the 11th chapter of Hebrews. Pentecost produces a people
"of whom the world is not worthy" and as we read we see that their devotion was not predicated around the blessing of their worldly circumstances. They loved Jesus because He IS!, and He IS worthy to be worshipped, no matter the cost to them, or their plight in this world.

This is to live as a martyr would.

Pentecost is primarily filled with Holiness and Power, and the Cross as the means to attain Him, as He is exalted, we are diminished. This, and not the manifestation of tongues is the sign of Pentecost.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. "

To remain in the fire, is to allow Christ to live in me, not I.

"And no man dared join himself unto them.."

 2009/9/21 21:17

Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


Thank you again, Brothertom,

This is to live as a martyr would. Pentecost is primarily filled with Holiness and Power, and the Cross as the means to attain Him, as He is exalted, we are diminished. This, and not the manifestation of tongues is the sign of Pentecost.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

" To remain in the fire, is to allow Christ to live in me, not I.

This is the heart of being a Christian.

 2009/9/21 21:32Profile

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