| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Since I started this thread I want to remind everyone on my position.
I've studied this for about 25 years so I'm not a newbie to the subject. I personaly do not know "EXACTLY" who or of what type the antichrist will be. I see merit in a few of the main teachings on it. I see merit in this Islamic antichrist theory,thats why I posted it. So I'm not putting this thread up as dogmatic on the subject.
Prophecy type study to me is very important however not as important as the great commission.
God bless. |
|  2009/8/18 6:36 | | Lysa
Member
Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!
| | Re: | | Quote:
Natan4Jesus wrote:
Keep your powder dry, your larder stocked, buy silver (as currency) buy more Bibles than you need, and hide them, and when you can, as the Lord allows, move into the hinterlands, rural areas, learn how to grow food, raise cattle, horses, and be prepared to preach the Word, dont assume that rural areas are "holy", just coz they call them the "Bible Belt".
This is an honest question (not wanting to argue) but if all the Christians move to the "hinterlands and rural areas," who is going to lead the ones in the cities to Christ?
I don't know, I thought we are supposed to be dying to live?!!
I was just asking because a lot of Christians seem to be in survival mode; but I'm not trying to say that I know what the answer is. Not by a long shot.
God bless,
_________________
Lisa
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| | 2009/8/18 7:14 | Profile | Lysa
Member
Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!
| | Re: Walter, I don't believe it! | | Quote:
waltern wrote:
Antichrist, who eventually is nothing more than Satan incarnate, will have tremendous power to deceive those that are left behind. As far as a Muslim actually being Antichrist, I find that hard to believe. Antichrist will have to appear to the Jews as the Messiah they have been praying for, for centuries. To do that, he will have to be of Jewish origin. When he brokers a peace treaty between the Jews and the Arabs, with the agreement that the Jews will rebuild their Temple---- they will think that he is the POLITICAL MESSIAH they have always wanted.
Amen brother!! We agree on this point!!
:-) ;-)
God bless,
_________________
Lisa
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| | 2009/8/18 7:17 | Profile |
| | Re: | | lysa, I'm not answering for natan4 but I will say this.
Some christians will be in the rural areas in hiding ,"if necessary". Others will be in the cities as well spreading the word. I see the great trib as only about 3 1/2 years so there may be alot happening in that short time. Amixture of hiding as well as going forth. Thats just my take on it for what it's worth.
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| | 2009/8/18 7:20 | | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | Kind of off topic, but these are good for a disaster. You do need a heat and water sourse though. I am getting a few of these for emergency times (flood, tornado, meteor, etc... :-P )
Regardless of the tribulation, we should always be prepared to feed ourselves, family and God willing, our brothers and sisters in Christ in the midst of a crisis. This is not a long term solution, but will help in times of need.
[url=http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11219554&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US]Emergency Rations[/url]
_________________
Christiaan
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| | 2009/8/18 9:23 | Profile | sojourner7
Member
Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE
| | Re: | | Walter, the Muslims are also looking for a
"Promised One" or "Messiah." They even accept
that Jesus was a prophet but do not believe
he went to the cross to suffer and die for
them. When one of their imans {holy men}
rises up and says that all Muslims must live
together and work for peace; for a time there
will appear to be peace in the Middle East.
Until this "iman" declares himself to be the
"true" Messiah and declares a jihad to destroy
Israel!! And where he will be revealed {the Dome
of the Rock} is the very place that Israel wants
to build their next temple!! :-?
_________________
Martin G. Smith
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| | 2009/8/18 10:06 | Profile |
| | Re: | |
Dear soujorner7:
Specific Prophecy has been given to us by God, through the power of the Holy Spirit to the Prophets and the Apostles, as well as through the Words of Jesus Christ.
The non-believing Jews will all enter the Great Tribulation. It is a period of time designed for them, as well as all gentiles (and muslims are included) that hate God, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and will not accept His payment for their sin.
After Antichrist walks into the Temple and demands worship the Jews eyes will be opened, and at that point in time they will FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS.
Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)[u] then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:[/u]"
Then, at the end of the Tribulation, they (the Jews) will be looking forward to seeing their real Messiah, Jesus Christ, not the counterfeit--the Anti-Christ, Satan (the deceiver), who they thought was their Political Messiah!
"seek him who they have pierced"
Zechariah 12:10-14
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:[b] and they shall look upon ME WHO THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13. The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14. All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
Hosea 5:15
15. I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
[color=990000]There is no place in God's Word for a muslim Messiah. It is all about the Jews, just like the millenium, the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ on this earth, that has been promised to the Jews.[/color]
All of those Jews, that understood the abomination of desolation, as prophesized by Daniel, and fled to the moutains, will be protected during the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. These people, the Jews, as well as non-Jews that are still alive at the end of the Tribulation, and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, will enter the Millenium reign of Jesus Christ in their bodies of flesh and blood. They will have billions of Children during this 1,000 year reign of peace on earth. Those Children are like our children. Some believe, and some do not.
Christ will let Satan loose out of the bottomless pit one last time, at the end of the 1,000 years, to deceive the nations, to test the people. Who really believe, and who do not. Those that do not believe will follow Satan against Christ at Armageddon, and Christ will kill them all by the words of His mouth.
[color=990000]Where in Scripture can you find any justification that Anti-Christ will be a Muslim? No where, that is where. Anti-Christ will deceive and use the God hating, Christ hating Muslims to do his work, to chop off the heads of those that oppose him.
Today, right now, there is such tremendous deceit in the World. The Church is falling away before our very eyes, and the winds of "doctrine" (Bible Teaching)is being perverted by Satan, who is "the Prince of the power of the air", "the god of all lies"; "the author of confusion", and "the prince of this world"
Without Scripture to support your thesis (that Antichrist is Muslim), you have allowed yourself to be deceived by Satan, who still, at this very moment, has access to the thoughts and the minds of everyone, even Bible believing Christians. We must have Scripture, Bible Scripture, to support our positions, to support our hypothesis on any issue.[/color][/b]
Also, souljourner, you stated the following:
Quote:
[b]Until this "iman" declares himself to be the "true" Messiah and declares a jihad to destroy Israel!! And where he will be revealed {the Dome of the Rock} is the very place that Israel wants to build their next temple!!
[/b]
[color=990000][b]Actually soujourner7, I recently heard about recent research that shows that the Dome of the Rock is not located in the same place that King Solomons Temple was located:[/color][/b]
[b]Here is the Link:[/b]
[url=http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2008/temple.html]New Proposed Location for King Solomons Temple[/url]
New Proposed Location for Solomon's Temple
by John P. Pratt, V. Garth Norman, Lance Harding, and Jason Jones
Reprinted from Meridian Magazine (15 Aug 2008).
©2008 by John P. Pratt. All rights Reserved.
Index, Home
Contents 1. Historical Background
1.1 Dome of the Rock
1.2 Dome of the Tablets
1.3 Astronomical Orientation
2. New Proposed Location
2.1 Solomon's Temple
2.2 Formerly Proposed Locations
2.3 Central Axis
2.4 Drainage Channels
2.5 Cisterns
2.6 Pillar Base
2.7 More Research Necessary
3. Conclusion
Notes
Newly discovered evidence indicates possible original location of Solomon's temple.
Exactly where was Solomon's temple located? Virtually all investigators agree that it was on the Temple Mount Platform in Jerusalem, but its precise location has been in question.
The magnificent Dome of the Rock This article proposes a new location on that platform, where no building presently exists. If correct, then Solomon's temple could be restored without affecting the magnificent Muslim mosque, the Dome of the Rock, which is situated where most scholars believe Solomon's temple had stood.
The evidence presented here was discovered by our team who were sent to Jerusalem last April to research the Temple Mount and surrounding area. Team lead Garth Norman is a professional archaeologist with decades of expertise in archaeoastronomy, Lance Harding is an expert in structural design comparitive study of temples, Jason Jones was our field work engineer and facilitator, having previously lived in Jerusalem, and John Pratt is an astronomer specializing in ancient sacred calendars. The research funding was arranged by Vern Swanson.[1]
1. Historical Background
King David, the father of Solomon, was commanded by the seer Gad to build an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Araunah, the Jebusite. David purchased the site and obeyed (2 Samuel 24:11-25). David himself was not allowed to build the temple, but was told that his son Solomon would accomplish that great task (1 Kings 5:5). The magnificent temple was seven years in construction and was finished in King Solomon's eleventh year of reign (1 Kings 6:38).
All tradition and evidence indicate that Solomon's Temple was built at or near David's Altar, atop the hill formerly known to Abraham as Mount Moriah. It is believed that it was the location of Abraham's offering of his son as a sacrifice (Gen. 22:2), and hence the mount is sacred to all believers in Abraham, including Muslims, Hebrews and Christians. The Temple Platform is located near the southeast corner of the old walled city of Jerusalem.
Solomon's Temple Solomon's Temple was built during the tenth century BC [2] and lasted until it was destroyed in 587 BC by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He took into captivity those of the Kingdom of Judah who were not slain or scattered, where they remained until the Persians conquered his kingdom.
Solomon's Temple Soon after the victory of Cyrus of Persia, the Jews were allowed to return to their country, to rebuild their temple and to worship there. The temple was reconstructed (presumably in the same location) and is generally referred to as the "Second Temple." It was desecrated by the Greeks in the third century BC, but then recaptured by the Jews in the second century. Its rededication at that time is celebrated as Hanukkah each year. It remained essentially intact until the time of King Herod, who took it upon himself to expand it in the first century BC by more than doubling its size, adding two more pillars in front (for a total of four), and also by increasing the size of the Temple Mount itself.
Titus of Rome destroyed Herod's temple in AD 70 so thoroughly that not one stone was left upon another, thus fulfilling the Savior's prophecy (Mat. 24:2).[3] That is what has made it so difficult to locate its precise position on the mount. Rome then erected a temple to Jupiter on the mount, symbolizing the superiority of their pagan gods to the Jewish. It in turn was removed when Christianity was adopted as the official religion of the Roman empire in the fourth century AD. Rather than erect a Christian shrine there, the Romans then allowed the mount to become a garbage dump.
1.1 Dome of the Rock
Pratt, Harding and Norman on the Temple Mount near stairs to Temple Platform. The religion of Islam was born in the seventh century AD. Soon afterward, when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, it was their desire to mark the location where their progenitor Abraham had offered his first born son as a sacrifice. Moreover, it was important in the life of their prophet Mohammed. They restored (and perhaps extended or modified) the original flat area on the Mount called the Temple Platform. They built a magnificent shrine there over the rock which is the highest point on the mount. Hence that mosque today is known as the Dome of the Rock. The structure is a marvel and has stood there since AD 691.[4] Humanity owes a great debt of gratitude to the Muslims from having preserved this site until today. Some archaeologists may complain that they would like to have dug it all up, but many are very grateful that the site has been so well preserved. It is generally believed today that the Holy of Holies in Solomon's temple was indeed located around the Rock. Leen Ritmeyer is the foremost proponent of this interpretation.[5]
Note, however, that the Muslims were concerned about preserving Abraham's sacred Rock altar on Mount Moriah. The Rock may also have been preserved by Solomon to be the altar site for his temple, located southeast of the temple, rather than marking the location of the temple itself.
1.2 Dome of the Tablets
Fig. 1. The Dome of the Tablets (foreground) and Dome of Rock (background) Although at least a dozen other locations for the temple have been proposed, today the principal second choice is the Dome of Tablets located near the northwest corner of the Temple Platform (see Fig. 1). This dome marks the location of a hundred square foot patch of what appears to be very flat original bedrock, which is at the level of the entire Temple Platform except for the highest point of the Rock (see Fig. 2). Prof. Asher Kaufman has proposed that it is indeed bedrock and marks the Holy of Holies of Solomon's temple.[6] If so, then a future Jewish Temple (the Third Temple)[7] could be constructed there without interfering with the mosque at the Dome of the Rock.
1.3 Astronomical Orientation
One argument for both of the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of the Tablets has to do with astronomy. When one looks at the long thin layout of Solomon's temple, the astronomer is struck by the fact that it would be perfect for letting the light of the rising morning sun (or moon, planet, or star) shine down its corridors and enter the Holy of Holies on certain sacred occasions.
Fig. 2. Is the Dome of the Tablets Floor bedrock? The current Temple Platform is not oriented due east, nor does the east wall of the city run exactly north and south. The latter is a nearly straight line directed some 6 degrees west of north. The Dome of the Rock has the claim to fame that a line drawn from the Rock perpendicular to the east wall, points nearly exactly to the summit of the Mount of Olives, whose peak is some 4 degrees above the Temple Platform's horizon. This alignment suggests that sacred events might have included the sun rising over the high point of the Mount of Olives and shining down the axis of the temple into the Holy of Holies. Thus Ritmeyer believes that Solomon's temple did not face due east, but rather some 6 degrees north of east to the summit of the Mount of Olives.
Fig. 3. Dome of Tablets at sunrise from the peak of the Mount of Olives. The astronomical claim of the Dome of the Tablets is that if the Holy of Holies were located there and if the temple axis did face exactly due east, then that axis also would point directly to the summit of the Mount of Olives. Thus both proposed locations are tied directly to astronomical orientation to the high point of the Mount of Olives.
Is there any reason to think that the orientation to the Mount of Olives was important? Indeed there is. While there is not much on record about looking from the temple toward the mount, there was a very important ceremony where a priest looked in the opposite direction, from the mount back to the temple. The sacred ceremony was the sacrificial offering of the Red Heifer which was done at a location on the Mount of Olives east of the temple such that when the temple doors were opened the priest would be to be able to see the veil which covered the Holy of Holies. He was said to stand "on top the Mount of Olives" at that time.[8]
Fig. 3 shows the Dome of the Tablets at sunrise on Sat 5 Apr 2008, as seen from very near the peak of the Mount of Olives (from the roof of the Mount of Olives Restaurant, across the street from the Church of the Ascension, said to be located at the peak). Because we were not allowed on the Temple Mount at sunrise to see the sun rise over the Mount of Olives, we felt the next best thing would be to look the opposite direction, from the peak toward the temple. Thus, this picture shows a view similar to what the priest offering the Red Heifer might have seen.
2. New Proposed Location
Our research objectives included several points concerning the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives. In particular the purpose was to examine certain points of Asher Kaufmann's theory and an extension thereof by Vern Swanson. During that research our team discovered what appears to be significant evidence strong enough to propose yet another location on the Temple Platform for Solomon's temple. Before presenting that evidence, let us briefly summarize some of the key things known about that temple.
2.1 Solomon's Temple
Fig. 4. Floor plan of Solomon's Temple The temple of Solomon had a tall front (30 cubits), and was 20 cubits wide by 60 cubits long (1 Kings 6:2). The most sacred room, called the Holy of Holies, a cube 20 cubits on a side located at the rear of the temple. There were two brass pillars in the front which were even named ("Boaz" on the left and "Jachin" on the right, see Fig. 4). These pillars were 18 cubits tall (1 Kings 7:15, 21). The temple faced eastwardly and was on a platform which was said to be 500 cubits square. Most scholars are in agreement that the east wall of the square is identical with the east wall of the city, and it is not pointing due north, but about 6 degrees west of north.
Another point worth noting is that many pictures of Solomon's Temple show it raised up above the platform, as do both of the pictures at the beginning of this article. There is no scriptural basis for that assumption. It is usually made because it has been believed that the temple was situated at the Rock, which would mean that the temple would have to be raised to fit the top of the Rock into the Holy of Holies. Another common idea is that the Holy of Holies itself was raised above the level of the front of the temple for the same reason. Neither assumption finds scriptural support.
Fig. 5. Drainage channel (outside Solomon's temple) was within Herod's expanded temple. Another important detail is that there were drainage channels on either side to allow rain water to be saved in cisterns beneath the platform floor. When Herod enlarged the temple he increased its dimensions, such that the drainage channels were inside of the larger structure (see Fig. 5).
2.2 Formerly Proposed Locations
At least twenty locations have been proposed for Solomon's temple. Each was proposed for a different reason to solve different problems and explain various pieces of evidence. A good review of the evidence for each is given in Ritmeyer's book.[9] After having reviewed them all, the authors of this article have not found where their new proposed location has been suggested before. Thus we now present evidence for yet another proposed location.
Sincerley,
Walter
Quote:
sojourner7 wrote:
Walter, the Muslims are also looking for a
"Promised One" or "Messiah." They even accept
that Jesus was a prophet but do not believe
he went to the cross to suffer and die for
them. When one of their imans {holy men}
rises up and says that all Muslims must live
together and work for peace; for a time there
will appear to be peace in the Middle East.
Until this "iman" declares himself to be the
"true" Messiah and declares a jihad to destroy
Israel!! And where he will be revealed {the Dome
of the Rock} is the very place that Israel wants
to build their next temple!! :-?
|
| | 2009/8/18 19:59 | | nearthecross
Member
Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74
| | Re: | | Quote:
Where in Scripture can you find any justification that Anti-Christ will be a Muslim? No where, that is where.
Funny, those two websites I gave provide much Scriptural "justification" that the Anti-Christ will be Muslim. Perhaps it would be good to take the time to read those articles and examine a point of view other than your own, before making remarks like the one above and writing such lengthy posts that doubtfully many people will read.
I lean strongly towards the view that the antichrist will be Muslim, and find much support for it in Scripture, history, and current events.
But in honesty I've grown tired of these speculative debates. And I'm weary of anyone who writes as if they had all the answers down. |
| | 2009/8/18 23:14 | Profile | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Re: | | Isaiah 10:5-15 The Assyrian
Isaiah 14:24-27 The Assyrian
Isaiah 30:27-33 The Assyrian
Isaiah 31:4-9 The Assyrian
Assyria is located in north Mesopotamia and spans four countries: In Syria it extends west to the Euphrates river; in Turkey it extends north to Harran, Edessa, Diyarbakir, and Lake Van; in Iran it extends east to Lake Urmi, and in Iraq it extends to about 100 miles south of Kirkuk.
Know if the anti chrit is called in bible the Assyrian it must mean that he is Assyrian. Know he will either be from Turkey, Syria, Iraq or Iran the main religion in that countries is Islam.
_________________
Colin Murray
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| | 2009/8/19 9:25 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
Antichrist will have to appear to the Jews as the Messiah they have been praying for, for centuries. To do that, he will have to be of Jewish origin.
Where is that found in the Scriptures? It is never taught that the anti-Christ will be Jewish, and that he would appear to the Jews as their Messiah.
Simply put, Zechariah's prophecies indicate that the end time deception will originate out of the plains of Shinar, which is ancient Babylon and modern day Iraq. Unless there is a major shift in the sociological makeup of Iraq, it seems most likely based on this makeup that the anti-Christ will adhere to some form of Islam. But, being that area has been overrun by Islam for many centuries now, that is unlikely to change anytime soon.
_________________
Jimmy H
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| | 2009/8/19 9:31 | Profile |
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