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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : NATIONAL HEALTH SCARE

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"So this isn't an "issue de jour" of the moment, rather a very prime issue. This is a moment where there is increasing unity in America in opposing another bill that will devalue the dollar,and devalue life." thingsabove

If the implication is that a devaluing dollar devalues life and this is the simple correlation then I don't know why I'm a Christian. Paul's contentment had nothing to do with money. Peter's power wasn't in gold and silver. Jesus didn't send the disciples out with bags full of shekels. Regardless of how we see the issues, we need to prepare for hard times because He may just take away that life giving dollar.

 2009/8/13 11:24


Amen CC. I am so tired of being around people who spend their whole lives fearful of one thing or another. "Perfect love casts out all fear." We are to be "anxious for nothing, but in everthing by prayer and supplication and thanksgiving make your requests known to God and the peace of God which surpasses understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." So we see we are to be anxious for "nothing." If you look up the Greek, what does the word "nothing," mean? Hmmmm, ah yes, it means nothing. And we are to be in prayer and supplication and thansgiving for some things, oh im sorry, for everything :) What else does Jesus teach us not to be anxious for? Lets see......
1.We are not to be anxous about tomorrow Mat 6:34


3. Food

4. Life itself. Luke 12:22

5. And just in case we miss the point, the Holy Spirit gives this command, not a suggestion "Do not be anxious about anything." Php 4:6

Can I suggest that if you have been anxious about the above mentioned issues, that you repent of your unbelief, your sin of anxiousness. When you are anxious you are saying that God is not enough. You are saying that you have not been bought with a price and that you are not a servant of the most High God. Instead of living in fear, a better idea would be to consider the lillies of the field. That would not be sinful and that would not be a bad witness to a world that is dying and lost and overwhelmed by anxiousness and fear. Let the people of God follow HIs commands and let us be a pecular people..........Frank

 2009/8/13 12:35

Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 280

 Re: Biblical Truth

Frank and CC,

Thank you both for bringing some truth and I do mean Biblical truth to this issue. All who name Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour must hear and obey His truths and stop listening to and chasing after the self serving emotionalism of the world.

Here is an article that would do us all well to read and apply to our own lives.

Expository Thoughts On Matthew - Matthew 5:38-48

By J.C. Ryle

"WE have here our Lord Jesus Christ's rules for our conduct towards on another. He that would know how he ought to feel and act towards his fellow-man, should often study these verses. They deserve to be written in letters of gold: they have extorted praise even from the enemies of Christianity. Let us mark well what they contain.

The Lord Jesus forbids everything like an unforgiving and revengeful spirit.

"I say unto you, That ye resist not evil." A readiness to resent injuries, a quickness in taking offence, a quarrelsome and contentious disposition, a keenness in asserting our rights,-all, all are contrary to the mind of Christ. The world may see no harm in these habits of the mind; but they do not become the character of the Christian. Our Master says, "Resist not evil."

The Lord Jesus enjoins on us a spirit of universal love and charity.

"I say unto you, Love your enemies." We ought to put away all malice: we ought to return good for evil, and blessing for cursing. Moreover we are not to love in word only, but in deed; we are to deny ourselves, and take trouble, in order to be kind and courteous: if any man "compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." We are to put up with much and bear much, rather then hurt another, or give offence. In all things we are to be unselfish. Our thought must never be, "How do others behave to me?" but "What would Christ have me to do?"

A standard of conduct like this may seem, at first sight, extravagently high. But we must never content ourselves with aiming at one lower. We must observe the two weighty arguments by which our Lord backs up this part of His instruction. They deserve serious attention.

For one thing, if we do not aim at the spirit and temper which are here recommended, we are not yet children of God.

What does our "Father which is in heaven"do? He is kind to all: He sends rain on good and evil alike; He causes "His sun" to shine on all without distinction.--A child should be like his father; but where is our likeness to our Father in heaven if we cannot show mercy and kindness to everybody? Where is the evidence we are new creatures if we lack charity? It is altogether wanting. We must yet be "born again." (John 3:7.)

For another thing, if we do not aim at the spirit and temper here recommended, we are mainifestly yet of the world.

"What do ye more then others?" is our Lord's solemn question. Even those who have no religion can "love those who love them;" they can do good and show kindness when affection or interest moves them. But a Christian ought to be influenced by higher principles then these.--Do we flinch from the test? Do we find it impossible to do good to our enemies? If that be the case we may be sure we have yet to be converted. As yet we have not "received the Spirit of God." (I Cor. 2:12.)

There is much in this that calls loudly for solemn reflection. There are few passages of Scripture so calculated to raise in our minds humbling thoughts. We have here a lovely picture of the Christian as he ought to be. We cannot look at it without painful feelings: we must all allow that it differs widely from the Christian as he is. Let us carry away from it two general lessons.

In the first place, if the spirit of these ten verses were more continually remembered by true believers they would recommend Christianity to the world far more than they do.

We must not alow ourselves to suppose that the least words in this passage are trifling and of small moment: they are not so. It is attention to the spirit of this passage which makes our religion beautiful: it is the neglect of the things which it contains by which our religion is deformed. Unfailing courtesy, kindness, tenderness, and consideration for others, are some of the greatest ornaments to the character of a child of God. The world can understand these things if it cannot understand doctrine. There is no religion in rudness, roughness, bluntness, and incivility. The perfection of practical Christianity consists in attending to the little duties of holiness as well as to the great.

In the second place, if the spirit of these ten verses had more dominion and power in the world, how much happier the world would be then it is.

Who does not know that quarrelings, strifes, selfishness, and unkindness, causes half the miseries by which mankind is visited? Who can fail to see that nothing would so much tend to increase happiness as the spread of Christian love, such as is here recommended by our Lord? Those who fancy that true religion has any tendency to make men unhappy, are greatly mistaken: it is the absence of it that does this, and not the presence. True religion has the directly contrary effect: it tends to promote peace, and charity, and kindness, and goodwill among men. The more men are brought under the teaching of the Holy Spirit, the more they will love on another, and the more happy they will be."

J.C. Ryle

Lee Chapel

 2009/8/13 14:15Profile


Yes in regards to the "devalueing life" part of my statement.
When a person or nation takes on debt they cannot pay back it devalues us in many ways.

Some people who can't buy things because of the hyperinflation that results will be tempted to steal and possibly kill for what they need.

It puts us in bondage to ungodly rulers both domestic and foriegn that can come in and take and leave us even more the slave.

The current health care bill contain more money and laws for abortion on demand. This devalues life of children and mothers and country.

So certain laws or potential laws should be opposed by those who see them to hurt our country. Many unsaved as well as savedsee this as harmfull to our country.

 2009/8/13 14:23


"Some people who can't buy things because of the hyperinflation that results will be tempted to steal and possibly kill for what they need.

It puts us in bondage to ungodly rulers both domestic and foriegn that can come in and take and leave us even more the slave." thingsabove

Sounds familiar.... alot like God's biblical judgment on a two-bit wayward church???

And the CHURCH problems of rampant immorality and hypocrisy will be resolved how??? By town hall meetings, protests, and petition signings? This will make our church more righteous, this will solve the abortion problem. If this is the case then we should have had this thing licked years ago as there has been no shortage of this activity by the church over the past two decades. Arrange a protest rally at a gay pride parade and you'll get thousands on the streets with their 'turn or burn' signs. But organize a prayer vigil on the same street for the conversion of homosexuals to repentence and Christ and see how many you get. Same ole story, same ole solution, same ole results. The subsequent 'head scratching' when things just don't seem to work out becomes fodder for the enemy himself. The problem isn't whether the saved and unsaved oppose something harmful to our country, the problem is the Church blames everyone but itself for it's own problems. The problem lies in not wondering why God is allowing these things to happen. Do we run to Him in the confines of vigilant prayer or we run to the blogosphere or the local Rep. or the next Town Hall meeting?? The answer to that may give insight as to why we are where we are. The gov't is such an easy and convenient target for the ills of the church, which can be perplexing given the amount of enmeshment and back door deals between the two... facilitated in some regards by the former.

This could very well then be the necessary consequence of a wayward church. Why did God put Israel under judgment to ungodly rulers??? Why did He send them into the bondage of Babylon??? Why did God allow Rome to bludgeon the new christian church?? Because they looked too much like the world.... because they yoked themselves to ungodly rulers (yes WE have many of them... they're called 'politicians').... because they thought they were in need of nothing. What was Solomon in need of with his global marketplace... making money in trading with ungodly nations which made everyone so abundant that there was little need for God?? And was he not led away from God like many in the so-called mainstream church today.

How about now? China, Russia, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, and other countries with questionable to dismal morals whether it be abortion, infanticide, child sex slavery or anything else are financing our interests and facilitating our abundance. When it comes to other countries devaluation of life that's fine... just keep that dollar strong, keep us afloat. When I look at Solomon I see our nation. Wisdom and Godliness in our youth and haughtiness in abundance and prosperity to the point where we forget about Godly faith in the latter days.

 2009/8/13 15:29


I didn't say the "church" problems would be resolved this way. hmmm..

ccrider your post comes across to me as very bitter and tunnel visioned. I know you may get offended by that but thats how you are coming across to me. Now others on here may agree more with you.

So anywhoo onward we go iron sharpening iron, wisdom in a multitude of counsolers etc.
God bless

 2009/8/13 15:37


"I didn't say the "church" problems would be resolved this way"--things

I'm sorry I never meant to imply you said this, I was expounding on my prior post that the church needs fixed first before we can expect any Godly change. My point was simply that the church needs to recognize it's involvement with the problems we face by understanding that we put too much emphasis on fleshly opposition and not enough on prayer and biblical mandates. I'm not against opposition but it lacks power if the opposition itself outweighs our righteous pleas to Him, which I think happens a lot.

If I come across bitter I apologize. I sometimes react with emphasis not bitterness.


 2009/8/13 15:49


O.k., I like the way you summarized that. I would like to say I agree whole heartedly with your summary. I think you have the right order of the way it should be. I couldn't have said it better myself.

That is the way it should be; yet even as we pursue the proper order for effecting true biblical change sometimes we will fall short as the church and definetly as a nation.

Again God bless you ccrider thanks for the post!

 2009/8/13 15:59

Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


i am sorry if i contributed in this thread to unGodly emotionalism.

with my love,

 2009/8/13 20:09Profile

Joined: 2009/2/16
Posts: 65

 Re: national health scare

God bless you holly - I loved that last part-where you said "I am sorry ...." even though I do not think you contributed to any ungodly emotionalism.

This is what separates us from the world- being conscious of OUR HEAVENLY FATHERS heart when we hurt His children -our brothers and sisters in Christ. Anyway I am glad for this post- it speaks of love- CHRIST LOVE THAT REIGNS EVEN WHEN WE CANNOT AGREE all the time. God bless you two too- -------- ccrider and things above.
“If I come across bitter I apologize. I sometimes react with emphasis not bitterness.”-cc-
“O.k., I like the way you summarized that. I would like to say I agree whole heartedly with your summary. I think you have the right order of the way it should be. I couldn't have said it better myself.”-things above

 2009/8/13 21:06Profile

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