In most of the denominations and non-denominations today to be a pastor you have either to go to bible college or seminary, and are appointed by the denominational leaders or by the local church staff leaders.Usually the emphases is more on the personality and talents or intellectual qualifications than on character, spiritual maturity and spiritual gifts.

The early local apostolic church was autonomous and at the same time inter-related with other local churches. There was plurality of leadership by elders/bishops/overseers (each of these terms were synonymes) and equality of all believers. The only recognized offices were elders & deacons who oversighted the local flock of God and administered the affairs of the church.

The local apostolic church was the local expression of the universal Body of Christ. The elders were elected by the Holy Spirit and appointed by the apostles, or local leaders of the church. Apostles or elders trained those mature christians who were called to serve God as elders with the ability & capacity to partor and teach the flock of God.

All believers were positionaly equal but in their functionality diverse. All believers were preists of God and each one according to the measure of faith and the gift(s) of the Holy Spirit ministered to the saints for the edification of the Body of Christ.

There was no professional clergy in NT local church, or positional distinctions. All were one in Christ, brothers & sisters of the same spiritual family and Christ was the real Head of the Local church and Holy Spirit the governor and guide and the Word of God the Standart.

Practically the NT church functioned as a body of Christ, each believer was called to serve and minister to the local church for the edification of the body of Christ and for the salvation of the lost.

Today we need not only revival but apostolic reform too, not only to grow in the grace & knowledge of Jesus Christ individually but to grow to the stature of fullness of Christ together with other believers in the local church.

Blessings,
Redi

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Redi

Hi Greg,

I agree with you bro, i believe too in the spiritual authority of those men of God who are oversighting the flock of God and we need to follow their pattern and example as they follow Christ. To borrow the words of someone else who expresses my thoughts on this matter, "We believe in the collective delegated spiritual authorities of Elders and Deacons".

How sad its the spiritual condition of the churches we go each sunday. It takes humility, courage and a heart filled with the love and wisdom of God for a local church leader to reform according to the devine pattern that God has set on a local church.

Reforming the local churches according to the divine pattern shown us in the NT it will cost much. Its not an easy task. Im sure most of the churches will continue to follow the traditional patterns set up by men not God.

The way we do church nowdays in foreign to the experience of NT believers.The primary goal of every local church is to glorify God and edify the saints and evalgelize the lost.The church of God is not an organization but a living organism and we who are genuinely born again are baptized in the Body of Christ by the same Spirit. We are the "incorporated body of Christ", what a deep mystery!

The ealy apostolic church was under the rulership of Christ. The purpose of God in in New Covenant dispensation is to establish the "corporate" Christ in the local church and not just a "personal" Christ in the hearts of individual believers. No man (believer) is an inland, we all are part of the whole, universal body of Christ.

In the OT the tabernacle in the wilderness was build exactly according to God's design, in the NT God has set a divine pattern to be followed in the church. Church is not like a football game where the majority are passive spectators and a small minority the players on the field. Its the duty of spiritual leaders to encourage every believer to serve with his/her gift(s) for building up the body of Christ and exaltation of the Head of the Church who is Christ.

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Redi

I have had experience with a model that places a group or "board" of elders in charge of the local body. The body would then "hire" the pastor who did almost all of the work of the ministry in the body. I would have to say that this is definitely NOT the model that I see in scripture. I have studied the New Testament church in some detail as to what the leadership structure looked like. At the foundation, in a servant leadership role, I found the five equipping ministries outlined in Ephesians 4:11-16. These five equipping gifts or callings, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher are seen again and again in the New Testament, especially in the book of Acts. Close study will show that these people formed the backbone of the leadership structure, each imparting to and equipping the body for ministry. Having each of these gifts in the body is vitally important. As a side note, these gifts are not things that we choose to do, but rather callings placed on individuals by God's choosing. These people are recorded as having ordained elders (I also see a plurality of eldership in the early churches)in each local body or assembly. There were also deacons (such as Stephen and the rest of the seven) who were chosen to be overseers of specific aspects of ministry in the local church. As a little bit of an aside, I cannot see a significant difference Biblically between the offices of Bishop and Elder. They are often used interchangebly. So, I do see definite leadership structure, and I do see a very definite Biblical precedent to submit to this eldership / leadership insomuch as it is Godly leadership. If the leadership in a local body is not Godly, what are you doing in that body anyway??? It must be noted that this leadership is not to be "authoritarian" or lording over the body, but instead serving the body in leadership. Having read some of the antenicene fathers, it seems to me that the idea of hierarchical leadership in the body is a corruption that entered in within the first 300 years of the church. In our own fellowship, we are blessed to have all five equipping ministries functioning, and it is a blessing to all. Outsiders who come in are often confused and ask, "so who is the pastor", or, "now is He in charge?" It is not hard to distinguish what is going on if you spend much time with us however. Each equipping ministry fulfills his role, and as a result, the entire body is very actively involved in fulfilling the work of the ministry. Everyone is learning to walk in his or her specific gifting and calling, and much fruit is the result. We do have one man and his wife who have the calling of a pastor on their lives who carry the vision God has given for the fellowship. They are functioning together as elders in the body. It is very much team ministry to the body to equip the body for ministry. It matches what I can see as the Biblical example in the New Testament, and it is extremely effective. That is my viewpoint anyhow. God Bless!!!

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Travis

Part of true eldership is also to be constantly working yourself out of a job, or being needed, not the opposite.
Paul illustrated this so well, by equipping the saints so rapidly (Thessolanica 3 weeks?).
The fact that large church's need a pastor replacement from the outside is an indictment of two things...
1) Maybe churchs the size of Walmart don't work. They are very hard to run and duplicate.
2) Leaders aren't discipling their own.

There is a book out there called 'Quitting Church: Why the Faithful are Fleeing'

An interesting read.

In it is covered many complaints that have been aired on SI.

Who truly is the Gifted One? The One that is the Gifts and has all the Gifts is the only One that gives these Gifts to men, delegated by the Holy Spirit as He chooses.

So it is not men with Gifts and a sign over the door signifying which gift they are responsible for. It is Christ the Gifted One that is in them that uses these Gifts for the upbuilding of His Body, His Church.

Ephesians 4:4-7 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

I have seen the Gifts of Christ in a person, even little old ladies, spring forth as an apostle one day and a week later be the greatest evangelist you have ever seen, truly the Holy Spirit working in her as it pleased Him.

It is the Body of Christ giving place to the greatest Gifted One that has all the Gifts in Himself for His work, even in ones we deem without possession of any gift, they spring forth and the truth of the Teacher Himself come forth and it builds up the hearers of His Body, the Church.

I have seen Billy Graham be a Teacher, an Apostle, an evangelist, a Pastor, even being a Prophet at times. Also by the Spirit of discernment by the only True discerner Himself giving those in The Body which need be discerners, when Mr. Graham is in himself and not in Christ in what he is saying.

Ephesians 4:10-13 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This is The Grounding Corner Stone that the Church is to be built upon. Not mans building of a corporate church, with nothing of Christ in its operation, only in its profession of Faith without possession.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

This is a sound and wholesome post. I was comforted in the Holy Spirit by the light and truth of it.

I don't know about you though, but hearing from the Spirit and when to step out in faith is a hard thing. This I am saying in light of being elected into the ministry.

I also think there may be a freedom in the order of Church government. I know that the first Church set it up this way, but I am not sure it always has to be. Specifically, the multiple elders. I think sometimes the single Senior Pastor is acting as Apostle. For a single Apostle could run a Church, but it is very hard to discern or even have the office of Apostle.

...A very encouraging thread. It seems more and more, Christians are seeing God's true order for the church.

The thing is, to see is one thing. To identify with what is seen, quite another.

"God is the LORD which hath shewed us light..." Beautiful, to receive light. But what must follow next, as in this verse? "Bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar" (Ps. 118.27).

I often think of the kingdom of Saul, and the kingdom of David... and God's promise to David that He would reign on the throne of the kingdom and bring in God's true order for His people. Saul envied David, and persecuted him for this. But it was all part of God's plan in preparing David through rejection to be a contrite, humble, broken man when he came to the throne, with no interests of his own contaminating his reign.

And Jonathan Saul's son... he began to realize, too, that David would one day reign on the throne of the kingdom in God's true order. And one day he said to David, when jealous Saul was seeking to kill him, "Fear not, for the hand of Saul my father shall not find thee, and thou shalt be king over Israel, and I shall be next unto thee..." (1 Sam. 23.17).

Poignant words, because it never happened. David loved Jonathan, but Jonathan never did become "next unto David," because although he SAW the true order that was at hand, he never identified himself with David in his rejection. Do you suppose, perhaps, he thought he could go more or less comfortably straight from the throne of Saul to the throne of David?

...But no, we must identify with David, our "David," in his sufferings and rejection if we hope to reign with Him.

Do we "see" the truth of God's true order for the church? Are we prepared, then, to take up our cross, and identify with it? Because there is surely a deep and costly cross involved in this. There's another thread up just now with a message by T.A. Sparks about revelation leading to a lonely walk. True words... IF we identify with the revelation God shows us.

AD

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Allan Halton

Luke 1:31-33 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Our Jesus is who we will reign with. God the Father has given His only begotten Son The throne. The kingdom; and shall appoint Him (Jesus)as the lineal successor of David in the millenial kingdom and forever.

His father David. David is called His father because Jesus was lineally descended from David through Mary. God is the True biological and Godly Father Of Jesus. Mt 1:1. The promise to David was, that there should not fail a man to sit on his throne, or that his throne should be perpetual, and the promise was fulfilled by exalting Jesus to be a Prince and a Saviour, and the perpetual King of his people. This is specifically for His own who received Him not, Israel. We will reign with Him as His Body the Church, brothers and sisters in Christ and of Christ, with God as, "our Father".

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible; The thousand-year reign Rev(20:4-6)

Let us notice briefly the different classes mentioned who are associated with Christ in His personal reign. The entire company of the redeemed, as we saw them under the symbolical figure of the twenty-four elders, occupying thrones and wearing crowns, are undoubtedly meant by the first statement, "they sat upon them and judgment was given unto them." They judge with Him. This is the raptured company whom we saw first in glory in chapters 4 and 5; and we, dear fellow-believer, belong to this company. Then follow the martyrs, whom we saw under the fifth seal (6:9-11): "And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus and for the Word of God." Then we have a third company. "And I saw those who had not worshiped the beast, nor his image, and had not received his mark on their forehead, or in their hands." These are the other martyrs who were slain during the great tribulation, when the beast set up the image and demanded its worship (13). They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The first resurrection is passed and all who have part in it reign with Christ, are priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Oh! wonderful grace which has saved us! Grace which has saved us in Christ and through His ever precious blood delivered us from eternal perdition! Grace which saved us from Satan's power, from sin and all its curse! Grace which has lifted into such heights of glory and has made us the sons of God and the joint-heirs of the Lord Jesus Christ! And how little after all we enter into all these things, which ought to be our daily joy and delight. How little we know of the power of the coming glory of being with Christ and reigning with Him!

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip