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livingdog
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Joined: 2004/9/23
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 It is impossible for a Christian to have a sinful nature

As a result of Adam's sin, we were all born sinners and we received a sinful nature. Our sinful corruption was so bad and thorough that even God, Himself could not repair us. There was nothing God could do with that sinful nature, no touching up, no revising, no improving it and no adding to it could ever make it acceptable in His sight. Our sinful nature was entirely hostile to him and we were His actual enemy. We were so corrupt, so wicked and evil that the only thing God could to do with our sinful nature was to crucify it with Christ.

The only possible cure for your old sinful life was death. The Good News is that God has already provided the solution for us in Christ. When you were born again you were crucified with Christ and you were buried with Him. Your old sinful nature died and you received God's Divine Nature to replace it. You have received His all-sufficient Life in exchange for you old sinful nature.

Your old sinful self died, and you became a New Creation. Your old sinful nature is totally dead and can never be resurrected back to life again! You were resurrected with Christ and have a brand new life - with a brand new nature. Your old sinful wasn't changed, IT WAS EXCHANGED with a real life - the very life of Jesus! You no longer have a sinful nature. You now have a nature of righteousness, holiness, blamelessness. You have no need to become a better person, because God has already made you into a new person.

In Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature! (2 Peter 1:4). We have become "one spirit" with Him. (1 Cor. 6:17). God does not co-exist nor dwell in union with sin. If we still had a nature that was sinful, He could not indwell us.

Eph. 2:1, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

The fact is that our sinful nature that we were born with, in Adam, was crucified with Christ on the cross and it died. This happened the second we were born again accomplished by the work of God in Christ. Our new nature in Christ is righteous. The Christian does not have a sinful nature and a righteous nature coexisting together. It is impossible to be both righteous and unrighteous at the same time. We can not be A Child of God and a Child of wrath at the the same time. You can only have one nature at a time because it is impossible to have two opposing natures at once. Jesus said that a house divided against itself can not stand.

Mark 3:25, "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

So why do we sin if our sinful nature is dead and if we now have a righteous nature? Why do we still find ourselves committing the same sins if we have indeed been made righteous by the gift of God's grace? It certainly isn't because we still have an unrighteous nature. In Jesus Christ, we have received a new nature - His very nature! The person we were "in Adam" was crucified with Jesus. However we haven't yet been delivered from the presence of our corrupted body's sin. Our spirits have been redeemed and our soul is being renewed. One day we will be delivered from the very presence of sin, but until we receive glorified bodies, we each possess the power of sin in our bodies. As we trust Christ at each moment, His life empowers us to walk in victory. However, when we fail to depend on Him, we yield ourselves to the power of sin.

So if we don't have a sinful nature or an old nature anymore, what is it we struggle against? We struggle against the flesh, our habits, and our methods of getting our needs met apart from Christ. It is the flesh that can trip us up, because it fights against who we really are in Christ. Now, make no mistake, you only have ONE nature now and that nature is Christ Himself. We do not to struggle against an old nature that's already dead. But we can rest on Christ and what He has already accomplished for you and will accomplish through you in the future.

Christians still have the capacity to sin. The good news is that we are not identified by our fleshly body but rather by who we actually are! In Christ, sin doesn't define us. We are defined as saints. Nothing we "do" can change that identity, just as nothing we did created that identity in the first place. It was all the work of God and it will always continue to be the work of God. The prodigal son didn't lose his identity as a son, even when he went off and wasted his inheritance.

Have you ever heard this story about the Christian having two dogs (or natures) inside him?

"Inside of me there are two dogs, one of the dogs is mean and evil, the other dog is good, the mean dog fights the good dog, all the time".

When asked which dog wins he reflected for a moment, and said ... "the one I feed the most."

This is a LIE that we have to starve our "old nature" and feed our "new nature” because the TRUTH is that when we were born again our old nature died and it was replaced with Christ's Life. So when you accepted Christ at salvation, you were put into Christ and your old nature was crucified with Him on that cross and when He was resurrected, you were resurrected also-in Him and Him in you. You were "born again" with His new nature. The old once ceases to exist.

Paul explains this clearly in many verses (the message):

Romans 6:6-11, "Could it be any clearer? Our old way of life was nailed to the cross with Christ, a decisive end to that sin-miserable life - no longer at sin's every beck and call! What we believe is this: If we get included in Christ's sin-conquering death, we also get included in his life-saving resurrection. We know that when Jesus was raised from the dead it was a signal of the end of death-as-the-end. Never again will death have the last word. When Jesus died, he took sin down with him, but alive he brings God down to us. From now on, think of it this way: Sin speaks a dead language that means nothing to you; God speaks your mother tongue, and you hang on every word. You are dead to sin and alive to God. That's what Jesus did."

As Paul said, "could it be any clearer?"

Colossians 3:3-4, "Your old life is dead. Your new life, which is your real life-even though invisible to spectators-is with Christ in God. He is your life. When Christ, your real life, shows up again on this earth, you'll show up, too-the real you, the glorious you. Meanwhile, be content with obscurity, like Christ."

Romans 6:1-3, "So what do we do? Keep on sinning so God can keep on forgiving? I should hope not! If we've left the country where sin is sovereign, how can we still live in our old house there? Or didn't you realize we packed up and left there for good? That is what happened in baptism. When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace-a new life in a new land!

Romans 6:3-5; "That's what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus. Each of us is raised into a light-filled world by our Father so that we can see where we're going in our new grace-sovereign country."

Galatians 2:19-21, "What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn't work. So I quit being a "law man" so that I could be God's man. Christ's life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not "mine," but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that. Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God's grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily."

If you are a Christian and living in defeat and are struggling with sin you now you must believe what Christ has already done for you and in you by faith! All this is a done deal. It was all accomplished for you and given to when you became a Christian. Now if Christ does live within you, His presence means that your sinful nature is dead, but your spirit becomes alive because of the righteousness he brings with him (Romans 8:10 Phillips).

Your old evil desires were nailed to the cross with Him; that part of you that loves to sin was crushed and fatally wounded, so that your sin-loving body is no longer under sin's control, no longer needs to be a slave to sin; For when you are deadened to sin you are freed from all its allure and its power over you (Romans 6:6-7 Living Bible).

You may ask, if Christ makes believers dead to sin and if my evil nature is crushed - why do I still discover old evil desires popping up? Why is there still an evil presence in my body? Why am I still capable of doing sinful things like all other sinners? Why should I be a Christian, if it doesn't break the power of sin?

Maybe you haven't heard yet, or maybe it sounds too good to be true, but Christ totally freed us to all sin at Calvary. You can now "walk out" on the devil! You can throw down your load of sin, walk away from Satan's dominion, and enter into a new life of freedom. Let me show you what the Bible means when it talks about dying to sin. When Lincoln emancipated the slaves, the "issue" of slavery died. Not the slave master--not the slave. The slave could walk away free, saying to himself: SLAVERY IS A DEAD ISSUE. THE OLD SLAVE IN ME IS DEAD. I AM A FREE MAN.

When someone receives Christ, what is it in him that dies? Sin doesn't die. Satan doesn't die. Nor does the evil tendency die. The "issue" or the "controversy" dies. Sin created a controversy in the heart of man about who was in control and the battle between good and evil was the result. God simply emancipated the mind from sin's control, killing the controversy of slavery to evil.

When the Bible says, "We die to sin," it simply means that to us THE ISSUE IS DEAD! There is no more argument--THE MATTER IS NOT NEGOTIABLE--MANKIND WAS EMANCIPATED AT CALVARY! The issue as to who is in charge is dead! Paul used legal terms to describe the Christian's freedom from sin's bondage. The same legal terms are used daily in Congress: THE BILL IS DEAD. THE AMENDMENT WAS KILLED. THE RESOLUTION DIED.

The Bible says, "...he that is dead is free from sin...Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe we shall also live with him" (Romans 6:7,8). What that means is simply this: Since the matter of your slavery to sin is a dead issue, seeing that Christ has already declared you emancipated, you are now free to live as a new person in Christ. In other words, you have died to slavery, so why go back and pick cotton for the devil?

Now the slave could slip back into the field and pick a few more rows of cotton- - perhaps through fear or instinct - -but that, in no way, made him a slave again. He was free, but he had to exercise his freedom. The proclamation couldn't force compliance, and neither could the slave master force him to return. It was a matter of the will of the slave. Christ declares we are free by faith, but we must act as a free person.

Satan decreed a law that, as prince of the world, all living souls were his subjects. God's Supreme Court KILLED THAT LAW OF SIN. It died because Satan could not enforce it anymore. God declared it unconstitutional and substituted His own law--THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT, giving Him all rights to the believer's body.

After years of trying to understand what Paul meant by DYING TO SIN or DEATH OF THE OLD NATURE, I now see how simple it all is? Sin doesn't die, only the SLAVERY to it dies! Its power over me dies. So now I don't have to go around trying to die or struggle to feel dead. Nothing in me dies except the law that held me in sin's control. Sin is still present in me, but I am no longer under its control.

Think of freedom from sin as a divorce. Christ takes the believer to His Father, the Judge, and gets a divorce from sin so that He can take that same believer as a bride to Himself. Christ loved us while we were still living with sin; He died to prove that love; and that gave Him the right to annul sin's claim on us.

This divorce makes us dead to the claims of the old affair, but it doesn't stop the old illicit lover from coming around to harass, seduce, or try to press a new claim. Satan never accepts such an annulment without a fight. He will come, calling with threats, with compromises, with alluring offers. But legally, Satan no longer has a claim on any believer. Paul wrote, "...having died to that which once held us, we now serve in newness of the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the Law" (Romans 7:6).

No Christian can now say, "I can't help myself. I can't break from my sin." Paul was finally delivered from this kind of talk, and so must we be! Satan can't make you sin now; but your old slave nature can attempt to reassert itself. If Christ did not break the power of sin, the crucifixion was a hoax. You will always be a slave until you quit excusing your weakness by claiming to be helpless. You are not helpless as a child of God. You are not the devil's patsy anymore. Pretending to still be a slave of sin is an alibi Christians use to put off facing the responsibility of their freedom. And so we should not be like cringing, fearful slaves, but we should behave like God's very own children, adopted into the bosom of his family (Romans 8:15 Living Bible).

Now Christ has made us free. Now make sure that you stay free and don't get all tied up again in the chains of slavery (Galatians 5:1 Living Bible). Freedom from sin's slavery must be accepted by faith. The whole thing then is a matter of faith on man's part, and generosity on God's (Romans 3:16 Phillips). Faith is something you do about what you know. Knowledge means nothing unless it is acted upon.

The children of Israel received the good word that God had given them Canaan for a homeland. That information would have meant nothing at all to them if they had remained in Egypt as slaves. But the Bible says, "By faith...they forsook Egypt...by faith they passed over the Red Sea" (Hebrews 11:27-31). The Israelites did not march to the border of Canaan, fire one volley of arrows, and expect all the enemy armies to drop dead. The land was theirs, but they had to possess it "one dead soldier at a time."

What does that have to do with my getting victory over the grip of sin? Everything! Christ settled the issue of slavery to sin by declaring me emancipated from its dominion, but I have to believe it to the point that I do something about it. It is not enough to say, "Yes, I believe Christ forgives sin. I believe He is Lord. I know He can break the power of sin in my life." You are mentally consenting to what you heard. But faith is stepping out on that promise of freedom and acting upon it.

Face the facts. All your other methods to find peace and freedom have failed. You cried a river of tears; you made a thousand promises that you broke; you tried self-control, self-denial, and various self-help programs. After all you have tried; you still ended up with unfulfilled longings you could not understand or overcome. You found yourself unable to stop sinning. You were, at times, driven into sin through sheer boredom and mental depression.

The problem is that you have not yet gotten to the root of your problem. You may have heard that Christ has emancipated you by dying on a cross, but you will never enjoy that freedom until you give God what He asks of you--and that is A TRUSTING MIND. He wants you to believe waht He has told you is true.

For without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he exists, and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him..." (Hebrews 11:6). Faith is simply taking God at His Word and acting upon it. The true believer is the person who can say, "God said, therefore I believe it. I'll stake my life, my future, my eternity on it. If God has decreed that I am a free person--if He tells me sin no longer has power over me--if He says my faith in Him makes it all possible--THEN I ACCEPT--I GIVE UP MY USELESS STRUGGLE--AND I YIELD ALL TO HIM. I DO BELIEVE!"

The most important move you ever make, as a believer, is the move you make right after you fall. Satan whispers, "You are rotten to the core, sensuous, childish, and immature. You will never be holy; you will never be anything in God. So quit! Give up. It's useless to try. Go back! God is too high and holy; it's too complicated and difficult; you'll never figure it out. It's all over!"

Lies--all lies! So you thought you had freedom and lost it? So you think people will call you a phony? So you sinned with your eyes wide open--knowing better--with the Holy Spirit screaming in your ears? So you never thought you could do such a vile thing again? So what? Your fall is not fatal. Once again, confess and accept God's fact that you are totally forgiven, holy and that your sinful nature is dead because of what Christ has already done for you. You are still His child. You are not a slave to sin. His loving kindness is greater than all your sins. Look up, rejoice, and take heart!

Any sense of broken fellowship with God is in your own mind, not God's. His loving kindness is everlasting. Nothing will change that, not even neglecting to read your Bible. That old nature you think squelches your holy desire? That isn't your old nature! The old nature is dead. It's only your flesh and the power of indwelling sin "messing with your mind." Affirm the truth! Christ is your life, no matter what you do or don't do."

Stop your everlasting introspection. You won't find victory, probing around the garbage dump of your mind. That would be like a losing general, crossing the enemy lines to consult with his foe, asking, "Can you please tell me what I'm doing wrong? I want to defeat you, but I can't seem to make headway. What am I doing wrong?"

When Paul talks about sin in regards to Christians, he says that sin dwells in our "members" (bodies). (Romans 7:17-20). Sin is not the Christians nature; rather sin dwells in our temporary, corruptible bodies. Our bodies are not who we are. Our bodies are not our identity. Our bodies do not define who we are. Our bodies will eventually be put in the ground or burned into ashes, but "we" will live on. "We" will live on, because "we" are spiritual! We are spiritual beings with a righteous nature who happen to live temporarily in sinful bodies.

When Paul wrote to churches that had very obvious problems with sin, he never referred to them as "sinners saved by grace." He never told them "they were not perfect, just forgiven," either. No, Paul referred to them as saints. Saints are holy people who are set apart, righteous, justified, cleansed, and purified. Paul addressed them as who they really were - saints. When Paul talks to them about their sin, he tells them that by the grace of God and by the Spirit they should put away their sinful deeds. Now the only reason that they could do this was fact that they are righteous, since they are saints, since they've been forgiven, since they are holy, since they've been washed and cleansed and purified, and since the very life of Jesus lives in union with them.

The Bible does not say Christians are sinners. It does not say that they have a sinful nature. In fact the good news is that our old sinful nature was crucified with Christ.

God made them holy and righteous. The Holy Spirit reveals this fact to us and then appeals to our righteous nature as the means by which to overcome and put away the deeds of the flesh. Even when Paul referred to himself as the "chief of sinners," remember that he's not talking about his current condition. He's referring to his past. If anyone had the right to crown themselves the chief of sinners, it was his past life that would reign supreme! But now, having become a partaker of the divine nature, Paul and those he wrote to, and you and I and anyone else who has been born again simply through faith, can never call themselves "sinner" again!

The Bible gives us good news. Jesus Christ will deliver us from these bodies of death! Our corruptible bodies will be exchanged for incorruptible bodies and our mortality will be exchanged for immortality. In the meantime, we trust in the righteousness of God that is ours as a gift. Trust the reality that you are one with Him, even if you sometimes don't act like it. Trust in who you are in Christ, and end the focus on sin that dwells in you, but is not you. Trust that you have one nature - the divine nature!

The way to overcome, and to live in victory over the sin that dwells in our bodies is not to think of ourselves as "sinners saved by grace." We are not "sinners." We are righteous saints who sometimes submit to sin that dwells in our members. Some say we're sinners saved by grace. Some say we're saints saved by grace. So what? We all sin in the end, right?

Knowing who you are - your true nature, your true identity as a saint in Christ - makes all the difference in how you go about living your daily life in Christ. If you're just a "sinner" who's begging God daily for grace, then I believe you've missed the whole point of the life that God gave us. God didn't come and dwell in us so that we could say we're merely sinners saved by grace. He deposited His VERY LIFE into us! His Life has become our life. His life is divine. We have become partakers of His Divine Nature! If we see ourselves in this light - the light of the truth of who we really are - then we will begin naturally growing in ways that "sinners" can never grow. What shows on the outside will begin to match the true reality of what has already taken place on the inside. Peter called this "growing in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

In the same way, a Christian who is sinning is simply not behaving naturally. Your actual, factual nature - given to you as a gift from God - is righteous. You are a saint. The Bible says that you have become a "partaker of the divine nature." There is no sin in the Divine nature. Your nature is not righteous and sinner. You are a righteous person who sometimes sins, but sin is not your nature! Well, what about when I walk after the flesh? Again, the flesh is not your nature! In fact, quickly, let's talk about the difference between the "flesh" and the "sinful nature," and then discuss how neither one describes the reality of who we are in Christ.

Sinful nature: This is the actual, factual nature that we inherited from Adam. When we were born, we had this nature. But when we were born again, this nature died and we took on the new nature of righteousness - a gift from God. Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ" and "I died." Those are powerful statements! So, what died? What was crucified with Christ? Our bodies obviously didn't die. Our souls didn't die - we can still think and feel and we still have a "will." So what died was our spirit that had been born in Adam - our sinful nature. When we were born again, we still had these old bodies and souls, but our sinful nature was killed - dead, gone, crucified - forever - and we were raised to life with the righteous nature of Christ.

Flesh: The flesh can be described as our own efforts to live this life apart from God. When we had the sinful nature, it was quite easy for us to simply walk according to the flesh. That is, to walk according to our own way of doing things apart from God. When our sin nature died, and when we were born again as new creations with righteous natures, it became natural for us to walk after the Spirit. But yet anytime our souls (mind, will, emotions) are not secure in the reality of who our spirits have truly become in Christ, we still find ourselves trying to live our lives by our own methods, even by our own religious methods. But all it is is walking after the flesh.

To make it clear, the flesh and the sinful nature are not synonymous. The NIV unfortunately translates the Greek word "sarx" as "sinful nature" several times, when the word "sarx" actually means "flesh." This can really lead to confusion, because the flesh is NOT the sinful nature! The sinful nature has died. We could not be partakers in the divine nature if we were still partakers of the sinful nature!

The Christian has just one true nature, but that nature needs continual renewing (Colossians 3:10). This renewing, of course, is a lifetime process for the Christian. Even though the battle for sin is constant, we are no longer under the control of sin (Romans 6:6). The believer is truly a "new creation" in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), and it is Christ who will ultimately "rescue [us] from this body of death. Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:24-25).

When Christ was crucified, the old man was crucified with Him, resulting in the Christian's no longer being a slave to sin (Romans 6:6). We "have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness" (Romans 6:18). At the moment of conversion, the Christian receives a new nature. It is instantaneous.

When a person receives Christ, he is given the very nature of Jesus. Peter said that we have become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:3). A Christian does not gradually become righteous -- he has been given the gift of righteousness in the person of Christ! 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, "that God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him". You may behave more righteously than you do right now, but you will never be made more righteous than you are today. Every Christian has the nature of Christ. How can we get holier than that?

When our focus is only on behavior, we are living a legalistic, performance based kind of "Christian" life. God's prescription is that our focus should be on Jesus. Abiding in Him will allow us to live in victory. Our lifestyle is not built on values, Christian or otherwise. Our life is Christ! As we abide in Him, His righteousness is expressed through our lifestyle. Apart from him, even our "good" deeds are nothing more than empty religion. Jesus said, "Apart from me you can do nothing". We can preach, pray, teach, witness, give, and do a hundred other things, but they all add up to zero in God's eyes if we aren't abiding in Christ. Don't get caught up in living by values. Live by His life. An expression of Christ is real Christianity. Abide in Him!

At the cross of Jesus Christ, the trunk (source) of sin in our lives was completly severed. The flesh patterns of our past may still cling to us like vines, but there is no source of life to sustain them anymore. The cross of Jesus Christ destroyed the power of sin in your life by dealing a death blow to your old nature! Do you want to walk in freedom over the flesh patterns of your past? Appropriate by faith that the cross was sufficient. Allow the life-giving power of Christ's life to surge through you like nutrients from the ground passing through the roots into the tree to produce fruit.

You may recognize old fleshly vines clinging to you that grew over a period of years, but as you trust Christ to express Himself as your very life, you will see those vines wither and lose their grip on you. Keep your eyes on Jesus. By His grace, He will prune away the life-draining patterns that rob you of His life flowing without restriction in and through you. He will free you daily from sin's power and will produce the fruit of the Spirit in your life.

A person can certainly act or behave like something he or she isn't, but that doesn't change his or her true nature. If I got on all fours and started barking like a dog, chewing bones and chasing the mailman, it's not that I'm behaving out of a "canine nature". I'm simply behaving in a way that doesn't represent my actual nature. I don't have two natures. I'm not a human and a dog. I'm a human who's acting like a dog.

But "who I am" is not my body anyway. I am a spiritual being who has become one spirit with God (1 Cor. 6:17). The more I dwell on the reality of this, rather than dwelling on sin that dwells in my body or who I was in Adam, the more "who I am" will work its way out to show on the outside! So, I praise God that I am in Him and He is in me, and that I'm no longer related to "the first man Adam," who "became a living being," but I'm now related to "the last Adam," who "became a life-giving spirit!" (1 Cor. 15:45)

When we were born we where identified as "sinners." Now, after coming to Christ by faith, we have a new identity as saints! We are not "sinners saved by grace." It is grace alone which has saved us, but now in addition to having been forgiven of our sins, we have been made holy, blameless and righteous - saints! That is actually, factually what God has made us to be! He doesn't just "see" us as holy and righteous. He has made us holy and righteous.

If you believe you still have a sinful nature you will act like you do; believe that you are a holy, purified saint who admittedly sins at times, but who hates that life-style, and you'll be highly motivated to act like such a saint." Our new life in Christ is lived by trusting and resting in what God has already done, and in His very life which is in union with ours forever!

Rom. 6:3-7, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Eph. 4:17-23, "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col. 3:9-10, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

Peter 1:3, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

1 Cor. 6:9-11, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Eph. 2:12-16, "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."


_________________
Rob Correll

 2009/8/2 9:39Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re: It is impossible for a Christian to have a sinful nature

My friend up until a few years ago I would have agreed with all what you have posted.

After falling into sin, I went into a time of prayer and fasting and the end of the fast God started to open my eyes to the depths of sin that where still in me. This sinful nature is so cunning and so engraved into your personality you believe it's you.

Since then God has been teaching me about purity and holiness showing me there is away for sinful nature to be dealt with.

Now many teach what you have posted on here.

Quote:
Your old sinful self died, and you became a New Creation. Your old sinful nature is totally dead and can never be resurrected back to life again! You were resurrected with Christ and have a brand new life - with a brand new nature.



I find this not to be the case, yes I have changed from what I was but there is still the old evil man in me, it did not die when I met Jesus. So I would go so far to say that there are two stages in your walk with God.

Justification
1. Like Moses and Israel you are set free from Pharaoh and the Egyptian control and you cross over the Red Sea into the Desert. Like the Israel they where given the law, we are given law but its written in our hearts. (Although we are justified by faith, many seek to be sanctified by works by keeping the law this is the working of the evil nature)

Sanctification
2. Like Moses and Israel in the desert we must experience death before crossing over to the Promised Land. In this stage our sinful nature must be dealt the death blow before we can progress to cross over the Jordan River to the Promised Land.

The following quote is by Andrew Murray

The man who sees that self is incurably evil and must die; who gives self utterly to death as he sinks before God in utter impotence and the surrender to His working; who consents to death with Christ on the cross as his desert, and in faith accepts it as his only deliverance; he alone is prepared to be led by the Holy Spirit into the full enjoyment of the New Covenant life. He will learn to understand how completely death makes an end to all self-effort, and how, as he lives in Christ to God, everything henceforth is to be the work of God Himself.

At the banks of the Jordan E. E. Shelhamer Took the “Deathroute

This testimony of Rev. E. E. Shelhamer, very clearly and forcibly, reveals the fact that human efforts of consecration and the divine crucifixion of carnal self are not the same thing.

One may consecrate endlessly and still not have the carnal nature eradicated else one could sanctify himself merely by making a consecration. Consecration will make crucifixion possible by getting one’s consent and making one willing to receive the death blow to the carnal pollution of the heart.

Here is Rev. Shelhamer’s testimony to his sanctification: I well remember my own experience when but a boy preacher. I awoke to the fact that though I had a measure of success in soul-winning, I had doubts at certain times whether all unholy tempers were gone. When I told it to my brethren, they tried to calm my fears by saying it was temptation, or infirmities. They said I had the standard too high. During those six years, I professed to have received the blessing [of holiness] a number of times. But I see now, my advisors side-tracked me. They meant well, but instead of teaching me that holiness of heart was an experience, an inward crucifixion, they held, as many do today, that it was a great blessing. I was instructed to make a complete consecration, lay all on the altar and believe the altar sanctified the gift.

But this was not my trouble--lack of consecration and abandonment to God. No! I was fully given up to God and delighted to do His will. I was not after a blessing. [b]I wanted purity.[/b] My good brethren diverted me from my trouble within, to a blessing and more activity without.

Finally, I heard a mighty man of God tell his experience--how he had preached and professed holiness for twenty-five years without it. But when the Holy Ghost revealed to him his depravity—the depth of pride, self-will and hell (as Wesley taught), he cried out “LET ME DIE! LET ME DIE!” He said he was three days confessing and deploring carnality, when suddenly the refining fire of God purified him through and through. When I heard this, immediately I said, “This is the Bible route--the death-route!”

The Holy Ghost took me through step by step until I came to the end of myself, [b]when the death stroke was given and the clear witness received that the precious Blood did NOW cleanse from all sin.[/b] O praise His Name!

Taken from the book Scriptural Death-Route Holiness By Rev. L. S. Boardman


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/8/8 8:03Profile









 Re:

good stuff, helps clear the balony so often expressed by the sinless perfection camp.

"No other pleas
My faith has found a resting place
Not in device nor creed;
I trust the Everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead.

Refrain
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea,
It is enough that Jesus died,
And that He died for me. "



 2009/8/10 15:30









 Re: It is impossible for a Christian to have a sinful nature

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 2009/8/10 16:02









 Re:


To Thingsabove:

What is your response to murrcolr? All of us can quote scripture. There are many that do exactly what you are doing right now, yet will never discuss anything with anyone.

[color=990000][b][u]I surely hope that you have more to offer than the Scripture that shows us how we appear to the Father in Heaven. We only appear that way to Him because we have the Down Payment, that lives in our hearts, the Holy Ghost that lives within us.[/u]

None of us will be perfected, and be the image of Christ until the time of the rapture, when we receive our new, resurrected, glorified bodies.[/color][/b]

I truly hope that there is more to you than quoting volumes of scripture that support your flawed position.

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:


thingsabove wrote:
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 2009/8/10 17:52









 Re:

Hey Walter I think that murcolr is totally correct in his response to the original post.

I was putting the scripture up as a very simple response to the original post. I believe that paul says sin still dwells in the body and the body is dead because of it.

God bless.

 2009/8/10 18:04









 Re:

The whole idea that the body or flesh is a sin and therefore you cannot be morally perfect until you get a new body or a glorified flesh, is nothing but straight Gnosticism. Gnosticism is alive and well today. The Gnostics denied that Jesus Christ came in the flesh because to them, sin was not a choice, but sin was a substance (the flesh).

Sin is transgression of God's law. God's law tells us what types of choices to make, not what type of body to have. Therefore our choices can be sinful, but our flesh cannot be. God's law does not tell us what type of flesh to have, therefore our flesh does not violate God's law and is consequently not a sin. God's law tells us what type of choices we should and shouldn't make, therefore our choices can violate the law of God and be sinful. Sinfulness is not a state of the flesh, sinfulness is a state of the heart or will.

It is sinful to live for your flesh, to live for selfish gratification, but it is not sinful to have flesh. God forms us in the womb with flesh. Our flesh is the product of the hands of God. Even Jesus had flesh. Jesus did not have a glorified body until after the resurrection, yet Jesus was morally perfect before He had a glorified body.

We cannot have a perfect body in this life. But we can have a perfect heart. We cannot have glorified flesh in this life, but we can have sanctified flesh in this life. We can yield our members as instruments of righteousness, to present our bodies a living sacrifice, to be wholly sanctified in spirit, soul, and body.

 2009/8/10 19:36









 Re:

truefaithsav, I think you put that pretty well.

 2009/8/10 20:44









 Re:


Hello, thingsabove:

Please accept my apologies. I thought we were going to be going through another endless posting of our postion in Christ, that is mistakenly thought by 3 or 4 other posters as a completed fact. That completion, that fact takes place at the rapture, when we shed our bodies of flesh and blood, and receive our resurrected bodies, and finally we will truly be like Him.

Again, I do apologize.

God bless,

Waler

Quote:

thingsabove wrote:
Hey Walter I think that murcolr is totally correct in his response to the original post.

I was putting the scripture up as a very simple response to the original post. I believe that paul says sin still dwells in the body and the body is dead because of it.

God bless.

 2009/8/10 22:34









 Re:

No problem brother, God bless.

 2009/8/10 22:38





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