1. Paul said all things are lawful. Does this mean that a Christian can do anything and not be damned? I do not think I am persuaded to that. So do you think he contextually mean all things are lawful pertaining to the ceremonial law instead of the moral part of the law? I mean he can talk of meat sacrificed to idols as lawful, but is it if its against your conscience? certainly murder is not lawful?

2. Again Paul says the ascetics say do not touch, see, taste, ect. And then goes on to say this is wrong. Is he again saying it is not wrong to touch a dirty dish and eat from it, but not meaning it is okay to see filthy movies or something. Again a distinction between ceremonial and the moral law? Or are things actually lawful for us and in one sense we can do anything and not be damned but in another sense we never could actually do those things because we are slaves to righteousness?

3. Women are to wear head covering while praying? I do believe that the scriptures say this and see no honest interpretation that says otherwise. However, my question is is this just for really formal prayer or something? Because I mean can a woman not wake up and pray without a covering or can she not pray while she is driving or some other thing?

4. Women are not to speak in Church. I think the scriptures actually say that. But, I am wondering is this just during certain very formal meetings? I am sure at least it is saying they are not to speak doctrinal things not just generally. This is somewhat hard to take in. I don't think I would mind a women speaking in a bible study. I mean what if they have no husband or something. I guess that may be an exception that would not change the rule though. I don't know any thoughts?

thanks for you input.

Question 1&2, These two questions can be answered with these verses, Deut 4:4-9 (replace "nation" for Church in verse 7&8).

Question 3, The covering is authority. If she is rebellious and she prays her prayers are hindered. Her hair is supposed to be the sign that she is under authority.

Question 4, A woman who is under authority has the right to repeat what the authority has laid down. She can't establish new teaching nor should she go about speaking of dreams and visions she has had. She needs to submit all those things to whom she is under, her husband if she is married and to the Pastor if she is single.



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I wonder where my adversary is lurking at? :-P

Hulsey,

yeah I think that is what he is saying.

I think hes saying all things are lawful for you since you are no longer under the law. However, at the same time that these things are lawful they are not good. And then, we would also put this into context with other things he has said. Like.. what then shall we sin that grace may about certainly not for how shall we who died to sin live any longer in it. Or be not deceived that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God and if you sow to the flesh you will reap to it. Or maybe there is also the "law of faith" if you are not having faith then you are not under grace ect. It is not beneficial it is grieving it is the flesh it is wrong.

As for the covering thing I do not hold to the same understanding so in context to the hair as a covering comment so...

It is a hard thing to say that the woman cannot speak in the Church. Many would say well that was just because of the messed up culture back then. I would have a hard time receiving that. I guess you understanding is that she cant make new doctrine or or share prophecies and such not that she cant speak on a less formal level or that at least they need to be first brought through certain men. Im not sure if I can receive that, but maybe. When he says she cannot speak in the Church you either have to say he means exactly that or.

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

The context of the passage is that there should be order in the Church with tongues and prophesy and such so maybe that is why you said she cannot share those things? I didn't think of that before. However I also read that it says if they have questions to learn. So they cannot even ask questions?

It even says that it is shameful.

It is a command from the Lord if not receive not recognized.

He says as the Law also says. What verses do you think he is referring to?

So I guess I am leaning toward the women being able to speak in the Church for at the very least they have to teach younger women and fellowship and even sing, but maybe they are not to speak about doctrine or something. Maybe the Church setting was much different then many today. Maybe they had a similar set up to a synagogue and would speak about doctrine or something?

Well you know the fundementalists believe that tongues and prophecies and the gifts of the Spirit have been done away with in the first century, maybe a lot more have been done away with besides what they believe. I don't subscribe to what they say, they are gravely in error.

[b]The answer about Eve in particular, and women in general, is found in the Bible:[/b]

(1 Timothy 2:12-15)
12.[color=990000][b] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14. And Adam was not deceived,[u] but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[/u]
15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.[/color][/b]

What this tells us is that Eve was deceived by Satan, while Adam was not deceived by Satan. Adam knowingly ate of the apple, not because of what Satan had to say, but because he did not want to loose Eve. If at that point, instead of following Eve, if Adam would have called out to God, none of this mess would have happened.

I heard Pastor Jon Courson preach once about taking over the Applegate Church in Oregon. It had been several years since they had a Pastor, and a woman was acting as the self appointed Pastor. Actually, no men were involved with the leadership of the Church at all--it was all women. Anyway, long story short, the Church was in a doctrinal mess, with false teaching 24/7. Jon had to finally ask them to leave the Church, to get everyone straightened out.

Women are the weaker vessel. The problem is, and has been for a very long time, that men have no understanding of their God Given, Biblical responsibility to be the Family Priest, as well as to be the head of the house. Women have done their best to come forward to fill the void, created by their Spiritually dead husbands.

Sincerley,

Walter

Deepthinker,

yes I agree. to say that gifts are no longer active is such a sad and serious essential error. I wish more people like Paul were around to say I am going to come to you that I might impart a spiritual gift to you that you may not be lacking.