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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why did Mark Driscoll's Church grow so much?...(also to anyone whos actually been a regular there)

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 Re: Is it a progressive gospel as you believe?

Yes, a gospel, but could it be a permissive and "progressive" gospel that is not clearly defined under the disciplines of holiness as defined by the Holy Spirit Himself?...SEE;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-KxxpiWnOE&NR=1

Iansmith wrote:
"If James were writing today, he would probably say that things like music, tattoos and drinking were peripheral to the Gospel! We need to examine what cultural assumptions we make about what a 'Christian' should look like, and see if they are biblical!"


"All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." Some permissiveness will cause you to lose your soul. Let us not confuse the two, or ever bend to "cultural assumptions" to justify the flesh. You are not "once saved always saved,", and to believe such a heresy, may slay you in the end; however hip and free it may feel.

 2009/7/17 0:24
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
a gospel, but could it be a permissive and "progressive" gospel that is not clearly defined under the disciplines of holiness as defined by the Holy Spirit Himself?



Brother I would say there is only one Gospel and that is the Good News of what Christ has done. In the Gospel there is no mention of holiness, nor is there mention of repentance or anything else for us "to do".

The Gospel is news to be believed or rejected, and I believe that Paul lays it out very clearly in 1 Corinthians 15.

As for the video, the guy who posted it has time and again been proven to be wrong in his assumptions of those whom he sets out to tear down.

So I guess the main question for us to talk about would be- does Mark Driscoll preach the Gospel? To which I would answer in a resounding YES.

That is not to say that I am wholeheartedly embracing or backing him per se, but defending him against false accusations.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/7/17 0:33Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

So a 23 year old Youtube blogger takes one teaching of Mark Driscoll to task and he is suddenly preaching a 'progressive' gospel?

Use some discernment!

Does the Holy Spirit work in the heart of an unbeliever?! Absolutely, one of the Holy Spirit's main tasks is to convict the world of Sin!

Jesus says in John 16:7-8 Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...

I would recommend that this young blogger Andrew Bain pick up a copy of Christopher Wright's book, "Knowing the Holy Spirit Through the Old Testament" or James Hamilton's "God's Indwelling Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Old and New Testaments"

Without the Holy Spirit working in our unbelieving hearts, we would never have come to faith in Jesus Christ... that is the simple truth.

In fact, God's Spirit was breathed into man when he was first created! Genesis 2:7 says, "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." No human life exists apart from the continued grace of God and the life that he breathed into us... the books above spell it out more clearly, but life is impossible apart from the working of the Holy Spirit.

Brothertom, I fear you have hipness jealousy.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2009/7/17 0:45Profile









 Re: No mention of holiness?..No mention of repentance?

No holiness or repentance?


"Brother I would say there is only one Gospel and that is the Good News of what Christ has done. In the Gospel there is no mention of holiness, nor is there mention of repentance or anything else for us "to do".".... Roaringlamb


"Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand!"...John the Baptist.


"Unless you repent, you shall likewise perish!"...Jesus.


Unless you repent, I shall come and remove your candlestick". Jesus.


"Without holiness, NO MAN shall see God!"


Repentance and holiness are Paramount and fundamental to the foundations of the scriptures; of course to the saved. I'm stunned at your ignorance of the basics of the bible. I fear that you have swallowed the bait , hook line and sinker of what hyper-Calvinism really is;, and what this fellowship has descended into. I am not trying to embarrass you, but this is deep in left field. Please humble yourself, and know that God is holy, and requires repentance unto Himself for salvation. The rest may just feel good.


Quote:

Brothertom wrote:
"a gospel, but could it be a permissive and "progressive" gospel that is not clearly defined under the disciplines of holiness as defined by the Holy Spirit Himself?"
Roaringlamb replied:
Brother I would say there is only one Gospel and that is the Good News of what Christ has done. In the Gospel there is no mention of holiness, nor is there mention of repentance or anything else for us "to do".

"The Gospel is news to be believed or rejected, and I believe that Paul lays it out very clearly in 1 Corinthians 15."

"As for the video, the guy who posted it has time and again been proven to be wrong in his assumptions of those whom he sets out to tear down."

"So I guess the main question for us to talk about would be- does Mark Driscoll preach the Gospel? To which I would answer in a resounding YES."

"That is not to say that I am wholeheartedly embracing or backing him per se, but defending him against false accusations."

Brothertom replied:

You desperately need some solid bible teachers to ground you in what the gospel IS, and IS not. I hope I say this in love.

 2009/7/17 1:00
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:


Brother I would say there is only one Gospel and that is the Good News of what Christ has done. In the Gospel there is no mention of holiness, nor is there mention of repentance or anything else for us "to do".




I just wanted to correct your statement, there is no salvation without repentance, Jesus said repent and believe. You can not not repent and be saved. No matter how you twist and turn it repentance is needed, true faith always comes with the package, faith without repentance is worthless, the devil have faith, even more then all of us, he has more correct doctrine then all of us, he has seen God, been in his presence, so to say repentance is not needed is very dangerous. Also scripture says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord, so it is also not good to say that is not "mentioned". To me the gospel is not a once upon a time i believed so all things are done set and clear, everything needs to be continued, continual faith, continual repentance, everyday pick up the cross, separated from my will, from the world and its ways and lusts, that is holiness, separation unto God. Without no man shall see the Lord, no man... this is what the NT teaches from page one to the last.

regarding driscoll i dont know, i personally believe when we need to become like the world to win the world my experience is it is because we do not have God or the power of God with us so we need make something of our own to draw people, it is fully possible to preach a correct gospel and God not be in it. But i dont know about this man,


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2009/7/17 1:04Profile
shadyg
Member



Joined: 2009/4/28
Posts: 64


 Re:

Amen Brother Tom and HmmHmm!

Repentance is the message of the bible. It was the message of the prophets, the message of John the Baptist, the Message of Jesus, and the messge of the Apostles. It had better be our message also.

As far as Bro. Driscoll is concerned, I don't know anything about him so I don't have much of an opinion. I can say that the truth is always relevant. I also believe it is possible to modern/contemporary/relevant without watering down the Gospel to a feel good, Jesus loves us, just be a good person and you'll make it to heaven message.

Where are the preachers who still preach repentance and holiness along with Jesus loves you?

Ever wondered why they aren't the ones the masses flock too?

 2009/7/17 1:20Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
"Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand!"...John the Baptist.
"Unless you repent, you shall likewise perish!"...Jesus.



No mention of the Gospel here though. And it doesn't change that the Gospel "news", not "advice" or "law".

Quote:
Unless you repent, I shall come and remove your candlestick". Jesus.



Again, no mention of the Gospel. Also this is to a Church is it not?

Quote:
"Without holiness, NO MAN shall see God!"



No Gospel here either. And the only holiness needed is that which is imputed to us. It isn't based on our holiness(which of course a truly born again person will grow in yet never be complete until glory).

Quote:
I'm stunned at your ignorance of the basics of the bible.



Please read 1 Corinthians 15, and look at the passages that say, "repent and believe the Gospel" before jumping to this conclusion about me. You do not know me, and to be frank, I don't need your help in understanding that the term for Gospel literally means "good news" or "glad tidings".

I would be interested to see what the Gospel is to you?


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/7/17 1:28Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
there is no salvation without repentance



And I agree, but the problem is that the Gospel is not repent, the Gospel is what Christ has done, that cannot be changed no matter how we try.

As for the repentance, the word means "change mind". So in effect, "change your mind about the news being presented to you" i.e. that Christ has come, died, and risen to save men from their sins.

Or if you'd like, "turn from being your own savior by your bad deeds and your good deeds and believe God's message about what He has done for your salvation" after all, in the Good news of Christ, there is a righteousness from God which begins and ends with faith, as it is written, the one who by faith is righteous shall live.

Love ya by the way my European brother.


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patrick heaviside

 2009/7/17 1:33Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

so we can receive these good news, the gospel and not repent you are saying? we can believe the good news and not live holy? separated from the world and self? i think you have missed the purpose of the good news some how,

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
no where does anyone contradict this in their writings or say it is not so, not Paul, not Peter, not John or anyone else.

the verse about candlestick is about the church correct, this one however is to the individual. Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

so we see we need to overcome, by faith, these people belived the good news, they had recived the gospel but if they did not overcome they would be blotted out. what did they need to overcome?

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: [b]for I have not found thy works perfect before God.[/b]
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and [b]repent[/b]. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast [b]a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments[/b]; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Jesus said it, repent and believe. We see here a group of people, all received the gospel, all believed the same thing , went to same church, perhaps held same doctrines, yet only a few would walk in white, those who held fast and repented, why was this needed for them to be saved but not for the rest of us? it may be different things, but we need to love God of all our hearts, and the next as our selves, if there is some part in our hearts that do not, we need repent until it is so. To once accept the good news and believe does not help unless it is maintained the rest of our life .

repentance, overcoming is necessary if we want to walk with the Lord in white


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CHRISTIAN

 2009/7/17 1:45Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

"He is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and He is ruling and reigning over all people; commanding everyone, everywhere to to [b]repent[/b].. and He is coming again to judge the living and the dead. And those who trust in him will enjoy eternity in His Kingdom of Heaven forever and those who do not will suffer apart from him in the conscious eternal torments of Hell." -Mark Driscoll

See for yourself: http://www.marshillchurch.org/about/the-gospel

You folks should repent yourself for speaking out of ignorance.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2009/7/17 1:46Profile





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