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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What Pelagianism and Arminianism have in common

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brnagn
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Joined: 2009/7/6
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 What Pelagianism and Arminianism have in common

Usually you don't have to define to others what you belive about certain things untill it's challenged.

 2009/7/7 13:16Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re: What Pelagianism and Arminianism have in common

not sure what you meen really? but i would consider pelagianism a heresy, but some "branches" of arminianism I would not consider heresy, same with calvinism, some "branches" of calvinism are horrific in their doctrines, others are not.

But probably many have much in common, you can find common things in Roman Catholic churches doctrine and in reformed doctrines, but it may be small but many have much in common, some right, some hard to define, i found out for my self all "camps" have rights, and wrongs in their doctrines. The most balanced thing is the word.


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 2009/7/7 14:10Profile
HomeFree89
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 Re: What Pelagianism and Arminianism have in common

brngan,

What's is the point of this thread?


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Jordan

 2009/7/7 14:22Profile
brnagn
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Joined: 2009/7/6
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 Re:

There is no such thing as "branches of Arminianism" because Arminianism is rooted in Pelagianism which was deemed Heresey.

The point of this thread is to put facts not what someone thinks is true.

 2009/7/7 15:30Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

Quote:

brnagn wrote:
There is no such thing as "branches of Arminianism" because Arminianism is rooted in Pelagianism which was deemed Heresey.

The point of this thread is to put facts not what someone thinks is true.



perhaps, but that is as true as for me to say calvinism is rooted in gnostisism. Even tho i believe some parts of it is dont make it heresy in the "normal" form, neither is arminianism, and the root is wrong, arminisnism is to be found in the early church fathers first century and second, pelagius if i remember right was 350 to 400 somewhere, free will is found much earlier, as early as people who where taught by Paul the apostle.

But i still dont see why you started this thread


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 2009/7/7 15:39Profile
brnagn
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 Re:

Pelagius and Arminius didn't teach free will in that sense. They taught free will in the sense that it's not under the complete bondage of sin from birth.

and you can't say that about what Calvin taught because it's not true.

 2009/7/7 15:48Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

calvin did not that is true, but some of the early church fathers did before Arminius and pelagius(?). So the root is older that is what i am saying, the root is to the first church.


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 2009/7/7 15:53Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

here is the root of free will, but they also taught we inherited something from adam and we are born under wrath....


"If a man were created evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for." Justin Martyr (First Apology Chap. 43)

"If anyone is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice." Ignatius (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume One, p. 61)

"The Scriptures…emphasize the freedom of the will. They condemn those who sin, and approve those who do right… We are responsible for being bad and worthy of being cast outside. For it is not the nature in us that is the cause of the evil; rather, it is the voluntary choice that works evil." Origen (A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 289,

"Those who do not do it [good] will receive the just judgment of God, because they had not work good when they had it in their power to do so. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving of praise for being good, for they were created that way. Nor would the former be reprehensible, for that is how they were made. However, all men are of the same nature. They are all able to hold fast and to do what is good. On the other hand, they have the power to cast good from them and not to do it." Irenaeus (A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287,


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 2009/7/7 16:00Profile
brnagn
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 Re:

What kind of free will did they teach? (Pelagius and Arminius?)

 2009/7/7 16:01Profile
hmmhmm
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 Re:

I havent studied Pelagius to deeply, but read some stuff that made me not read any more, arminius havent read either, other then he was a student of Calvin and later rejected calvins teachings, but this is vague memories, i read something from him and it struck me many probably make arminius more arminian then he really was. If that makes sense?

Anyway, the rejection of total depravity did not begin with these two, it started with the first church., in the meaning total depravity means a person can or can not chose to repent and believe God. That is my understanding, so to say Arminius and Pelagius are the root of free will, as in the possibility for all men to come to christ, did not start there. Just wanted to correct your statement, regardless off they have right or wrong doctrine your statement was not true.

But probably you can find an ocean of what they believed and not believed, but i rather encurage you spend time reading the bible, mostly these "hunts" seem to make the burning fire inside slowly "flicker" and burn less bright and our love for the Lord grows cold. I have found its better to hunt after God in his word. Have been down many paths myself searching for things and answers, many times you will find history is different depending whos telling it. And one man read arminus and understand him different from another ma reading him. etc etc.... Anyway

God bless


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 2009/7/7 16:12Profile





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