There will never be an end to the world, the only end that you will see is when you die. Ephesians 3:21
Can you imagine what the Christian thought when Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and other tyrants were taking power? Have you wondered what the Christian thought when Jews were being rounded up and being numbered with a tattoo on the fore arm? Have you thought how the Christian in that day would have thought when all countries of the world were engulfed in war?
_________________SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey
Lordoitagain, how solid are you in what you believe to be the truth concerning endtime bible prophecy?
Whitestone, God bless you brother. I wouldn't say that I know a lot, not really. But there are things that I do dare to step out and declare even it means that I stand alone, and I certainly don't like to be someone who would draw attention unto himself, not at all. When we read the bible there are some things that we have not looked at that should be looked at again without the voices of those that have interpreted for us. Everyone proudly says, "I get my interpretation from the LORD only". A foolish statement to make because everyone that listens to other men rave on in their sermons will pick up something. Jesus even said, "becareful how you hear".We all adopt something from someone and it's the Holy Spirits job (with our cooperation) to sort out the truth from error, because "when the Spirit of truth is come, He shall guide you into all truth". Thank God for that.So I, like you, am on a quest to know the truth, even if it means that what I come to know will not be liked amongst other brethren. However, that doesn't mean that we should become insensitive regarding truth and drop a bomb in front of these little ones lest we become a stumbling block to them, God forbid. I like to think that I am communing with older Brother and Sisters who have been in the way for a while.In seeking the truth, there is always that danger of leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ and cleaving to teachings that are certainly not in line with the word of God. All that we believe should be in line with all the word, not just one verse of scripture here or there, such doctrines are too shaky and anyone who bases their foundation on it will end up having their house fall. It must be built on Jesus Christ. It must start with Jesus Christ. And thank God even interpreting bible prophecy it starts with Jesus Christ.There were many things that were spoken of our LORD in prophetic utterances that never did get fulfilled according to our imagination. But because we know the scriptures they were fulfilled. What am I talking about?It said that when Christ would come He would rebuild the waste place. Well, Jesus never took up a hammer and nail to rebuild anything, but we know that He did in Spirit. Because we know the Temple that the prophet was referring was the people of God. God's interest is in Spirit, not what we see with our natural understanding.Jesus is referred to as a lamb, but his Mother certainly wasn't an Ewe. He is referred to as a lamb as being innocent and pure without spot or blemish. Now these idioms that are used to characterize a person or thing, shouldn't we also take note of that when dealing with what Jesus and the Apostle spoke?So when Jesus said that the Sun will turn black and the moon shall not give her light. We should look deeper into exactly what He is referring to. We shouldn't take things at face value. Nicodemus took Jesus words as what any man would think, "can a man return to his mothers womb and be born again?". That is a natural response. But Jesus wasn't speaking about that at all. We need to think about what we have come to know as truth and turn the tables upside down and have a reformation. I haven't avoided your questions, I have to get back to work.
Hello Deepthinker,I do not believe the Bible is tricky. It is not productive to argue when/how I believe Jesus will return, and I apologize for my tone. I do feel you have spent too much time thinking deeply and you have complicated something that is supposed to be simple. I do not even think a person needs to be able to read to be saved. It is not dependent upon intellect, only on Faith in Jesus.You did do a lot of typing, for someone who had to get back to work. I can wait as long as it takes to have my questions answered. I do not want to put you on a spot but that was a very odd thing to post and not provide follow-up. There are many here who are new to the Faith. Not everyone who reads the threads posts.Kind regards,white stone
God Bless you brother.
I do feel you have spent too much time thinking deeply and you have complicated something that is supposed to be simple.
Good Morning Deepthinker,When I see words like 'dispensationalism' my minds just skips the whole thread. I do not worry about questionable points that do not produce good fruit. My husband and I worship daily. Together we listen to audio readings of the KJV and follow along with the written word confirming the text. (I feel it is doubly implanted in my heart to hear and read it at the same time.Eccles. 12:13-14Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.Mark 5:36 . . . . Be not afraid, only believeLuke 8:50 . . . .Fear not: believe only. . .Not every believer has been given the benefit of a higher education (some have none) but God writes His laws in the heart of every believer and I believe they are the same laws for each Saint. It is natural man that puts the shackles on new converts. Here is the answer for that. Titus 3:9: But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. We do not worry ourselves if there will be a rapture, or not. What does that matter? We follow Jesus, if it is His will that we suffer we trust He will allow us to do it with grace.It is only on the part where you say this filthy world will continue forever where I balk. :-)Kindest regards,white stone
To Deepthinker:What does the Word of God say about the rapture? What does the Word of God say about a resurrection from the dead?Mystery, n. [L. mysterium, Gr. A secret. This word in Greek is rendered also murium latibulum; but probably both senses are from that of hiding or shutting; Greek, to shut or conceal.]1. A profound secret; something wholly unknown or something kept cautiously concealed, and therefore exciting curiosity or wonder; such as the mystery of the Man in the Iron Mask in France,2. IN RELIGION, ANY THING IN THE CHARACTER OR ATTRIBUTES OF GOD, OR IN THE ECONOMY OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE, WHICH IS NOT REVEALED TO MAN.3. That which is beyond human comprehension until explained. In this sense, mystery often conveys the idea of something awfully sublime or important; something that excites wonder.Great is the mystery of Godliness. 1 Timothy iiiHaving made know to us the mystery of His will. Eph. IWe speak the wisdom of God in a mystery. 1 Cor 24. An enigma; any thing artfully difficult5. A kind of ancient dramatic representation6. A trade; a calling; any mechanical occupation which supposes skill or knowledge peculiar to those who carry it on, and therefore secret to others.[The word in the latter sense has been supposed to have a different origin from the foregoing, viz. Fr. Metier, Norm. mestier, business, trade, occupation, as if from Norm. metie, master. But this is probably incorrect.]A mystery is something that has been concealed. In this case Paul is REVEALING a mystery that is not found in the Old Testament. Hence, it is NEW DOCTRINE. The Rapture versus the 2nd Coming of Christ"That day" referred to in 2 Thes 2:3 is not the rapture. "That day" is referring to the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ, at the end of the 7 year Tribulation. The term falling away is referring to apostacy (Strongs Concordance #646 = Apostasia)Paul was taught face to face by Jesus Christ for 3 yearsfirst in Arabia, and then in Damascas (Gal 1:12-18). Paul taught the revelation knowledge given to him by Jesus Christ of the coming rapture of the Church, before the beginning of the Tribulation. This Doctrine was not taught by the other Disciples, only Paul. In 1 Thes 4:13-17 Paul starts off by telling them that he does not want them to be ignorant of the coming rapture of the Church (because they were ignorant of this fact!)(1 Thes 4:13-17)13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.Paul preached a pre-tribulation position. The whole 2nd Thessalonians letter only makes sense if Paul had taught them a pre-trib Rapture in 1st Thessalonians. Think about it. They were horrified at being told that the Day of the Lord had come. Why? If they were post trib they would have concluded that the 2nd Coming was only seven years away. But if they were pre-trib such news would mean that they had missed the Rapture, and that would mean that they werent saved. Now that would be cause for the kind of alarm their letter to Paul conveyed.(2 Thes. 2:2) Paul explained that the Day of the Lord (Christs second coming, at the end of the tribulation) couldnt come until three things take place. The falling away, or apostasy, the removal of the restraining power holding the anti-Christ back (the Church), and finally the anti-Christs official introduction.The first of these three is underway today with the Emergent Church movement and the splitting up of the Evangelical Church over environmental and political issues. The second is the soon coming Rapture of the Church, and the third is the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus also spoke of in Matt. 24:15. (When Anti-Christ walks into the rebuilt Jewish temple and demands worship as God, 3 ½ years into the Tribulation)Take heart, it all makes sense. Paul has told us, because he told the Thessallonians in the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 that the rapture comes first. In 2 Thes 2:2 Paul explains that the Day of the Lord (Christs second coming, at the end of the tribulation) couldnt come until three things take place. The falling away, or apostasy, the removal of the restraining power holding the anti-Christ back (the Chruch, filled with the Holy Spirit), and finally the anti-Christs official introduction to the World.[b][color=990000]Also, Christ has promised us (in the past tense) through the words of Paul, that by our belief in Him have already escaped the wrath to come!1 Thes 1:1 10. And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.[/color][/b]Sincerely,Walter
DeepThinker wrote:God Bless you brother. Quote:I do feel you have spent too much time thinking deeply and you have complicated something that is supposed to be simple.Actually I work in a Care Facility and some of my time is just sitting. That is one thing that I don't do a lot of and that is thinking to deeply. The Holy Spirit who is my teacher quickens the word of God to me and shows me by His word the simplicity of His word. When I believed the way you believed my friend many years ago, it was complicated and there was a lot of unanswered questions. That is why we have several camps to which people settle themselves into, Pre Mid and Post Tribulation rapture teachings. What Jesus has taught me is much more simpler, the confusion has lifted concerning dispensationalism and the scriptures all fall into place. Every where I read now, all I see is Jesus and that He kept all the promises and fulfilled them to a tee. The way I believed before kept me running around in circles because there was no end to the confusion. But there is money to be made in hype, just ask Jack Van Impe.
I loved that last post, great attitude to have.
Not every believer has been given the benefit of a higher education (some have none)
We do not worry ourselves if there will be a rapture, or not. What does that matter? We follow Jesus, if it is His will that we suffer we trust He will allow us to do it with grace.