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Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 1 Peter 3:19

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Questions:

1. What did He preach?
2. Where / What was the prison?
3. Was he forced to go there?
4. Did He suffer when he was in there?


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Mark Nash

 2004/9/2 12:52Profile
Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re: 1 Peter 3:19

5. Who were the spirits?


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Mark Nash

 2004/9/2 12:55Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

This is John Wesley's comment on the verse;
1Pe 3:19 - By which Spirit he preached - Through the ministry of Noah. To the spirits in prison - The unholy men before the flood, who were then reserved by the justice of God, as in a prison, till he executed the sentence upon them all; and are now also reserved to the judgment of the great day.

and this is Gill (Spurgeon's precursor)
1Pe 3:19 - By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless.

I have some ideas of my own, but will give others an opportunity of commenting.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/9/2 14:31Profile
Nasher
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Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
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 Re:

This is what I gather from the text:

The spirits are those that in the days of Noah rejected God.


I have done a quick search on the word preach in the NT and this is a list of what Jesus preached:

The gospel of the Kingdom
The kingdom of heaven is at hand
the gospel of the kingdom of God
the word
that men should repent
the acceptable year of the Lord
the gospel

As Gill says, the dead cannot be saved, therefore I am still wondering what he preached to them.

Some say Victory, but why would He do this?

Some say to fill them with dread and terror, but why would He do this?


It says "By which also he went", therefore He must have gone somewhere, and as the text says - the spirits were in prison, therefore I would assume He went to that prison.


It talks about a prison in Revelation 20:7

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

and in the preceeding verses is mentions this prison as the bottomless pit:

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Question - are these the same prisons?


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Mark Nash

 2004/9/3 2:41Profile
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 Re:

Hi Mark
These are the kind of questions I would have in my mind.
1. why is this group singled out?
2. what is the thought context of the writer? What association of ideas are to be seen here?
3. Individuals are usually referred to as 'souls' in scripture. Why does Peter call them 'spirits'?


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Ron Bailey

 2004/9/3 3:35Profile









 Re: 1 Peter 3:19

Well we know that Christ suffered when he died on the cross. We know that he endured the pains and torment of hell. So it would be easy to believe, the prision which is spoken of, is the prison where all those who had died prior to Jesus's ressurection had gone. We have to realize that God was with the Jews, those were his people. They knew how to sacrifice and they knew his laws. The Gentiles, did not have the covenant with God, they were not counted in as 'God's People' UNTILL AFTER Jesus raised from the dead.

So Christ would have went and made sure that those who were in prison, were preached to. So that they could come to repentance and have eternal life. For God to h ave allowed them to die, and then go into eternal torment, would have meant that God created humans, and only cared for a certain group of them untill Christ came. Which brothers and sisters, would make God a respecter of Persons, which he is not.

So to answer the quetions better. I believed he preached the same thing he preached while on earth. To repent. The prision, I'm unsure of, perhaps a holding cell of sorts before a person is cast into the Lake of Fire. He wasn't 'forced' to go preach there, we have to remember Christ chose to follow the will of the Father and die for us, the Father did not force him to do it. He said Father if there be any other way remove this cup from me, but nevertheless not MY WILL BUT THINE be done. So he wasn't forced there, he chose to do it. And lastly, if he suffered while preaching, I have no idea. But he did suffer while he was in the grave, there is no doubting that.

Mitch

 2004/9/7 12:44
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Quote:
Well we know that Christ suffered when he died on the cross. We know that he endured the pains and torment of hell. So it would be easy to believe, the prision which is spoken of, is the prison where all those who had died prior to Jesus's ressurection had gone...
And lastly, if he suffered while preaching, I have no idea. But he did suffer while he was in the grave, there is no doubting that...



Hi bornagain
I wonder if we know as much as we think we know?
Why do you say he 'suffered in hell'?
Why do you say he suffered 'in the grave'?


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Ron Bailey

 2004/9/7 14:16Profile









 Re:

I used the phrase 'suffered in the grave' to mean that at some point during those three days after his crcifixion untill he was ressurrected, Jesus was suffering.

The entire point of his life was to die for my sins and pay the penalty of sin. He bore all of my sin, just like he bore all of my sickness. I am redeemed from poverty and sickness just like I am redeemed from sin.

And nobody can take the scriptures and say that if I die a sinner, I dont go to hell. We all know thats where I would end up. Because the penalty of sin, is ultimately hell. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So if sin leads to hell, which in turn means suffering, Jesus had to go through the suffering as well. Because he bore my sin for me.

Mitch

 2004/9/7 15:22
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 Re:

Quote:
The entire point of his life was to die for my sins and pay the penalty of sin. He bore all of my sin, just like he bore all of my sickness. I am redeemed from poverty and sickness just like I am redeemed from sin.


Just for others who are joining in this conversation this fact that sickness and poverty was tooken upon Jesus has already been heavily dealt with in this thread: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2482&forum=36&92]By His Stripes[/url] (which is a locked thread).

The majority of the speakers available on this site and my personal conviction as well as most members of SI is that Jesus died on the cross for sins, and sins alone. Not the effects of sin, ie poverty or sickness.

Quote:
And nobody can take the scriptures and say that if I die a sinner, I dont go to hell. We all know thats where I would end up. Because the penalty of sin, is ultimately hell. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


There is the fact that without the knoweldge of law sin is not known. But agreed the chief end of men is hell due to an inclination towards sin and disobedience to God. Knowing God but rather choosing not to obey Him.

As for Jesus going to hell and preaching to the spirits, and for his even suffering in hell?

He did say "it was finished" on the cross..

there is a difference between "prison" and hell.. and arent "hell" and the "lake of fire" two different things also?

He did descend into the lower regions and he did convey a message to peoples, I would believe its the people who died in the flood. The apostles creed formulated in the 3rd century maintained he descended into hell (*prision?).


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/9/7 16:34Profile









 Re:

Quote:
there is a difference between "prison" and hell.. and arent "hell" and the "lake of fire" two different things also?



The terms at times, can mean different things. Thats where we rely on our Strong's. However, my point, is that if Jesus never suffered in Hell, then Jesus never paid the penalty for sin.

So if you say that he never suffered, and you already claim that Jesus died ONLY for your sins, then you are in fact saying, sin still has a hold of you, because Christ never fully took that away.

The only way he could conquer death hell and the grave was to go to all three of those. The only way he could ever remove the bondage of sin from our lives, was to pay the penalty of sin. And who denies that the penalty of sin is death and hell?

Mitch

 2004/9/7 17:09





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