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 Re:



Hello, Mattie:

I am not opposed to the other "gifts" of the Spirit, only to the no longer needed gift of prophecy.

If you look at my post again, you will see I only addressed prophecy.

Today, many in the body of Christ are looking for signs and wonders. We have the "Toronto Blessing", that was actually the "Toronto curse".

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIVhey9me6s&feature=related]Charismatic Deception in the Last Days[/url]

[url=http://www.luciferlink.org/wtoro.htm]The Toronto Curse[/url]


Like I previously posted- we are at the end of time---time is running out. We surely do not need signs and wonders to worship and adore our Creator God. We need to humble ourselves before the eyes of the Lord. We need to study His Word, and show ourselves approved unto the God we serve and worship.

I have been involved with signs and wonders in the past, and found nothing but the flesh and error, nothing but pride and arrogance.

I speak in tongues, but I use it for my own prayer language to my Lord in prayer and adoration. I use it when I awake in the middle of the night, with the urgency to pray for someone, but God has not told me who, so I pray in tongues to Him for that person or situation that I know not of.

We will spend eternity with Him. Now is the time to do His will while we are on this earth- to witness to the lost. That is the mission of the Church. "Signs and Wonders" are the focus of those that will be following the false prophet into the great tribulation, led by the Antichrist.


God bless,

Walter


Quote:

Mattie wrote:
Waltern,

You bring up a great topic of discussion - that of the canon.

In regards to your thoughts that 'when the perfect has come' is referring to the canon, I would have to differ with you in that I believe it is referring to the 2nd coming. The context appears to be saying so because of Paul's mention that 'we know in part and prophecy in part, but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part will be done away with'. It then says 'Now we see in a mirror dimly, but THEN FACE TO FACE.' Do we now (having the canon), see 'face to face' rather than in a mirror dimly? The context seems to be speaking of our limits hear on the earth - prophesying in part, seeing in a mirror dimly. But when Christ returns, face to face, knowing as we are known.

The passages you gave don't seem to indicate to me that when the canon comes, we no longer need the gifts.

I agree that the canon is closed, and the Scriptures carry inspiration and authority. However, I do believe the gifts are necessary for the building up of the body, and they will bear witness to the Truth of Scripture.

I would ask you these questions...
*What was the point of the gifts in the first century (not for the apostles only, but for the church - 1 Cor 12-14)
*Where else in Scripture would you say there is no longer a necessity for the gifts when the canon has come?



 2009/6/23 10:56
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

waltern wrote:
I am not opposed to the other "gifts" of the Spirit, only to the no longer needed gift of prophecy.



Hi Waltern. There are many who hold your position these days. But prophecy is valid for this hour, and is deeply needed (true, Spirit-birthed prophecy, that is.)

I would encourage you to not sell yourself short of what God has for you (and for the churches) just because you've had a few bad experiences.

"Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thes. 5.21). (A verse from the canon.)

Absolutely, the "false prophet" is out there these days.

But so is the True.

"The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19.10).

...Perhaps enough said along this line, which takes this thread in a different direction? :-)

AD


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Allan Halton

 2009/6/23 11:18Profile
Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

One of the characteristics of the age we are in now is seen in Joel's prophecy before the coming Day of the Lord...

"...sons and daughters will prophesy..." (Joel 2:28-29)

We often times think of prophesy through the lenses of the Old Covenant - enforcing the Law of Moses, the blessing and curses on the nation of israel, as well as foreseeing the coming of a Messiah.

The prophet in the New Testament exists to promote the New - the indwelling Christ and the Headship of Jesus among His people.

In the new covenant, all are welcome to speak under the leading of the Lord. The body of Christ (as ADisciple pointed out) are to 'test all things' and 'not despise prophecy' (1 Thess 5)

 2009/6/23 11:48Profile
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Can I just point out in 1 Cor 14v40 it says, 'Let all things be done decently and in order.

But do continue in your discussion.

 2009/6/23 11:59Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

I wonder how the gifts are to function today...if the anti-christ will show himself in signs and wonders, like so many claim to operate within, many will be deceived because they look for signs and wonders. I wonder if the whole charismatic movement is just the precursor to how the anti christ will operate? So if one prophecy's and speaks in tongues, then possibly the anti-christ will too? and if so, then many will fall away because they do not look to the whole counsel of the WORD.

Sorry about steering off subject...but it seemed that we started to move in another direction..apologies.

:-)

 2009/6/23 13:05Profile
Aussiedler
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Joined: 2005/2/14
Posts: 109
GERMANY

 Re:

it is easy to discern. one main characteristic is the "image" or "likeness" of christ. If the person is humble, that is a very important sign.

Many have gifts (even the true gifts of the spirit) and are operating in the gifts of the spirit, but their hearts are full of pride. If the vessel is dirty, than everything flowing through that dirty vessel will also be dirty.

 2009/6/23 14:53Profile
Mattie
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

Good point Aussiedler.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 12-14 makes the emphasis that there is a more excellent way - love. The gifts need to come out of a love for your neighbor, rather than a desire to display "your gift", which sadly takes place in many places today.

The gifts are expressions of the Lord through a vessel to build up and strengthen others to serve Him and exalt Him. They are not an end in themselves.

 2009/6/24 11:18Profile
clintstone
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Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

waltern , if you oppose Prophesy you oppose the testimony of Jesus . in rev. 19 : 10 it says whorship God for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHESY . to all who read this post it is a thred of Utmost importance to realize why ? paul told corinth that , they in the church there , COULD ALL PROPHESY . the prophesying of which is correct is a SPIRIT OF GOD , GOD HIMSELF literally !! is God in us ? ! are we a habitation of HIMSELF ? !! are we as CHRISTIANS inhabited by the creator and upholder of ALL THINGS ??? yes ,yes , yes we are Glory to God ,emanuel, God is in us . Now , if there is really ever any TESTIMONY OF JESUS < HIMSELF > in our midst , then it is ONLY , and ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION , BY THE SPIRIT OF PROPHESY!! . people who are lost and in despair and hurting do not need scripture told to them ? they need to know that God sees right where they are , and the state of thier personal condition , and that He is the awnser to all that ailes them, and that the awnser is JESUS CHRIST . Not something ABOUT jesus , but the true TESTIMONY of Christ being right where we are becuase he is in us . I was asked to eat with 30 or so muslims from suadi arabia . they were celebrating the end of ramada , or however you say it , . this was back in 1990 , i live in tulsa and they all were going to spartan school of aeronuatics . I knew that wherever i go so Gos Jesus and ALL of His SPIRIT which is God Himself , so i was glad to get to go and witness of jesus to them . As we were all eating i began to speak in tounges first to one , then another then another , they started getting amazed and starting asking how i know thier language and they told me i was talking about Jesus to them and calling them by thier names , all this was in thier persanal language that i knew not . This is a example of the testimony of JESUS , which always is the Spirit of prophesy , just like a , sound mind , is a SPIRIT of God . All who read this and DARE TO BELIEVE GOD and THAT GOD IS IN YOU !! thank Him ! rejoice in Him ! WHORSHIP HIM !! BOW DOWN TO GOD IN YOU !! and He will use you in the testifying of JESUS, which is ALWAYS in this SPIRIT OF PROPHESY found in rev.19:10 . Paul knows that Jesus makes HIMSELF REAL TO US , through prophesy , that is why he says to them , PRAY THAT YOU MAY Prophesy , in other words pray that you may make people know that Jesus is real and knows all about thier condition and comes to save them from every enemy they have . We have to really really care for someone to shut up and not say anything we would say outside of this unction ,and testimony of Jesus. ALL the gifts and Graces that are only in Him , WE ONLY GET THEM WHEN WE ASK FOR THEM !! this is what is meant by Jesus when He said , " you have not because you ask not ! so ask God to show you how to walk in all HIMSELF and ALL HIS SPIRIT , seek wisdom and understanding , with all of your getting get these and you will BE A WALKING < PROPHESYING > testimony of Jesus . those who do not get this will be failing to really reveal , testify , of Jesus . It is sad to see people giving all the human effort and thier own thoughts ABOUT < JESUS' word { bible ] and they so miserably fail to give any life [ GODS' SPIRIT ] , actually God Himself is in none of it so much of the time . This happens because we do not really believe GODS' SIDE of what HIS WORD says and means , and we twist it all up . I personally want to be stupid enough [ poor in spirit ] not like the queen of sheba on the way to solomon ,who had a lot of doubts and questions , then AFTER SHE SAT UNDER SOLOMONS WISDOM ,her spirit she had, left her [ in other words she became poor in spirit ] then after hearing solomons wisdom she basically prophesied of WISDOM , she testified of wisdom , it is a beautiful passage .found in 1 Kings 10:1-9 . Most would not think of ourselves being towards the SPIRIT OF GOD < JESUS and GOD ,as the queen of beth-sheba was towards solomon and the things she HEARD of him , but sadly most Christians are unbelieving of the workings of WISDOM [ JESUS ] in us, with us , and through us , as the bible GOD actually says it is when we believe properly and follow properly , and pray properly and WHORSHIP PROPERLY . as revelations 19:10 says WHORSHIP GOD !! so we should make this a priority all the time to be . there are only 2 " musts " spoken of in the bible , we must be born again and we , must worship BOW DOWN TO GOD IN SPIRIT and TRUTH . Those who do this can all prophesy, so that if one comes in the church who does not know these things of God , he will be told of himself, things only God could know, personally, by Jesus , through the SPIRIT of PROPHESY in ,and through the believer that prophesys to him or her when they get in our midst. I know that people need JESUS and people are only Going to know HIM when HE personally REVEAL Himself to them , and this always HAPPENS BY PROPHESY and this means, is to happen through JESUS CHRISTS' BODY and every member can do this very pore of the body of CHRIST IS TO BE FILLED WITH ALL OF HIMSELF and HE IS GOD , and WE ARE HIS HABITATION !! GLORY TO GOD !! if this don,t move you to seek for it all and stay there in GOD what will , God sought me out to be HIS HABITATION ! not to be some high minded, unbelieving , idiot, that thinks he knows better ,than what god says we are to be , as HIS HABITATION . God bless , ASK THAT YOUR JOY MAY BE FULL !!! I tell you now nothing makes one more JOYOUS than JESUS and HIS TESTIMONY !! and this is truly our strenght . Clint


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/24 19:31Profile









 Re:False Prophets




Hello, Clintstone:

[color=990000]My friend, you can prophesy any time you are led to do so. However, if you ever prophesy one time, and that "prophesy" is not fulfilled, you are a false prophet.

God is very serious about this issue. IF He is the one putting the words in your mouth, then it will come to pass, 100% of the time, ALWAYS. However, if your flesh, or satan, or your pride is the one putting the words into your mouth, then you are a false prophet. The proof is in the pudding. The proof is in the prophecy 100% of the time. You cannot be wrong once, EVER. If you are, then you are indeed a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? [b] 22. When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


Just as sure as the fact that God will send His true prophet with the actual words of God;

There will arise false prophets speaking presumptuously on their own with their own motivation.

These false prophets will bring a message that is not from God.

Or they will speak in the name of other gods.

The penalty for the false prophet is death.

The test of a prophet who speaks in the name of God is--does it come to pass or not.

If the thing he predicted does not come to pass, it is evidence that he has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

The test of a prophet that comes in the name of another god is self evident by the identity of the god in whose name he speaks.

The Prophets of God have dealt with false prophets from of old.[/b] [1 Kings 18:1-40, 22:1-40, 2 Chronicles 18:21-22, Isaiah 8:19, 9:15, 59:11-13, Jeremiah 5:30-31, 6:13, 8:10, 14:14, 23:32, 29:9, Lamentations 2:14, Ezekiel 22:28, Micah 2:10-11]

[b]Jesus Christ and the apostles indicated that in the last days there will be many false prophets who come on the scene, speaking in the name of Yehowah or in the name of Jesus, and they will deceive many. [/b] (Matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24, Mark 13:22, Acts 13:6, 2 Peter 2:1, 3:3,
1 John 4:1)

[b]The last False Prophet who comes in partnership with the Antichrist finds his destiny to be the eternal Lake of Fire along side of the Antichrist. [Revelation 13:1-18, 19:20-21]

Be careful, my friend when you use the terms "Thus Saith the Lord"- that is exactly what you are doing when you are supposedly prophesying.

[u]God will not be mocked. Those who use His name in vain will be judged harsher than others.[/u][/color][/b]

God bless,

Walter

Quote:

clintstone wrote:
waltern , if you oppose Prophesy you oppose the testimony of Jesus . in rev. 19 : 10 it says whorship God for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHESY . to all who read this post it is a thred of Utmost importance to realize why ? paul told corinth that , they in the church there , COULD ALL PROPHESY . the prophesying of which is correct is a SPIRIT OF GOD , GOD HIMSELF literally !! is God in us ? ! are we a habitation of HIMSELF ? !! are we as CHRISTIANS inhabited by the creator and upholder of ALL THINGS ??? yes ,yes , yes we are Glory to God ,emanuel, God is in us . Now , if there is really ever any TESTIMONY OF JESUS < HIMSELF > in our midst , then it is ONLY , and ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION , BY THE SPIRIT OF PROPHESY!! .

DELETED

Clint

 2009/6/26 1:09
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

I agree , that a true prophet will , be 100% right in what He says, when He is truely in the SPIRIT of Prophesy , that is spoken of in rev.19:10 . there is a Spirit of Prophesy , that is the TESTIMONY of Jesus . There is also a Spirit of a sound mind and love . paul said somewhere that we all should be in such unity in the Spirit , when we gather together, that if one comes in unaware of this unity, that it will be told to them what they know . This that is told to the unlearned should be nothing more than what, Jesus who knows every hair on our head , knows. Also , Jesus could speak to us things to come that only He knows , and of His plans for them . I know this by exsperiencing this Spirit of Prophesy myself . I know things about peoples heart cry and private prayers to God , by this Spirit and when i go tell them of my hearing from God , i have never been wrong . I do thank God for this in my life but , i also see where all of can and should cry out to our heavenly father to know This Spirit of Prophesy . At times that i have prophesied the future , or fortold events to happen or revealed peoples heart crys, and given answers too ,Have always been direct answers to my specific prayers, and the cry of my heart too God , to use me me and let me SEE the salvation of my Lord Jesus . Jesus still has words of Life and the Spirit of Prophesy, spoken of in rev. 19:10 is a fundimental Key to Jesus revealing Himself through any member of His body , i believe this is why the man speaking to John told Him to Whorship God . This , Spirit of Prophesy, that is always 100% correct , is the way in which Jesus' Testimony comes to any of us . I know that we have scripture , and it is all Prophesy . There is the reality for, those who will see, and hear , and believe , that they can and will be such a person that knows the Unction from the Holy one , Himself , Jesus , and except this Spirit of Prophesy , and truely have the Testimony of Jesus . This Testimony , of Jesus, which comes by this Spirit of Prophesy spoken of in rev.19:10 , is what is so desperatly laking within the church and society , WE CHRISTIANS SHOULD ALL PROPHESY , we should get to know this unction that only is in this Spirit of Prophesy , beg for day and night , this is all that gives life beautiful words, wonderful words of life . This gift of Prophesy has companions , they are compassion and mercy , whoever walks in the Spirit of Prophesy is always waiting on the Lord to show them something they could say , and something they could do . Just like Jesus Himself did while He was here , He sought that which was Lost , through compassion and mercy , and He saw and heard from God , and that is all He ever said , and all He ever did . We as Christians can ONLY say and do what we see , and hear , our Heavenly Father say and do , and have any Life [ God ] in any of our sayings and doings . This is why i am so thankful for the Spirit of Prophesy, and all of its ways of operations within Gods people throughout all History, that has been revealed to me , Because by this Spirit i have the Testimony of Jesus . I really want to let everyone know this for themselves too . Prophesy is much better than knowledge attained only by our own human effort, and unfortunatly most fulltime preachers know nothing of this Spirit of prophesy that reveals Jesus in our midst , and in us personally in our daily lives , where the lost all all around us needing LIVING WORDS OF LIFE . I do not want to appear to anyone here to be arrogant or highminded , or better than any one else . I just want to arouse , and awaken , the seeking heart after God to the fact that we are able to Be as Gods mouth , and speak Life , which is Jesus and His testimony , to others who need Him and His testimony , and this by the Spirit of Prophesy , which comes only from God , just like a Spirit of Love and power and a sound mind does . thanks for your response waltern God bless you and may HIS GRACE Abound too you , Clint


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/6/26 19:12Profile





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