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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi Waltern...

Quote:
So to sum this up for you ccchhhrrriiisss, Billy Graham is the Pharisee, and Phelps is the “Watchman on the Wall”!

Do you have any evidence that would validate your accusation of this man (Billy Graham)? Have you asked him for clarity? Have you asked him to explain what he meant in the few short sound bites (that may or may not exist) that are used to crucify him? If someone is going to lay such an accusation against a brother, doesn't the Scriptures show us which way we are supposed to handle such a thing (private meeting, clarity, and an attempt at restoration)?

This isn't a minor accusation, Walter. You are calling this man a Pharisee and publicly agreed with a declaration that Billy Graham is going to Hell. I think that, before such an announcement is publicly made (or repeated), an effort to obtain [i]the other side of the story[/i] should be made...and reported.

As far as Fred Phelps is concerned: I just watched a few videos of this guy. You would think that a "watchman" would refrain from hurling [i]obscenities[/i] -- even at sinners. He and his followers call people words that should not be repeated on this website (or in the presence of women and children). For some reason, I think that Jesus, Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles wouldn't repeat the same words, slurs and hateful speech as Fred Phelps.

Yeah, if I had to choose between the two, I think that I would rather listen to a Billy Graham sermon than a Fred Phelps sermon. While I may differ from Billy Graham on many matters, I think that he knows how to carry on a temperate conversation without proclaiming an assumption about a man's eternal condition based upon a few sound bites.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2009/6/14 1:39Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Chris,


Quote:
For some reason, I think that Jesus, Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles wouldn't repeat the same words, slurs and hateful speech




I too think it is wise to examine the manner and content of what people say on the whole in evaluating whether or not they are of God. Or are speaking for Him.


Proverbs 10:11.




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/6/14 2:00Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi ChrisJD...

Yes, I agree. I have heard a few of the [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=118]15 sermons by Billy Graham[/url] listed on this website. Interestingly, none of them include examples of the accusations raised by Phelps.

This is a very serious accusation to make. For my part, I think that I will refrain from making a judgment on Billy Graham's eternal condition.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2009/6/14 2:55Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Robert, What you shared reminded me so much of something that Pastor Cymbala shared in this message here, beginning around the 53:30 minute mark.



This is a seriously searching message and I agree at that point it gets very sobering for a while.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/6/14 6:58Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

It should be noted that while I have not ever heard one full message by Billy Graham, I did however attend a seminary in Charlotte, NC which he helped found by the name of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. The seminary here is very evangelical, and many of its top professors have written many articles and essays strongly advocating all the major tenants of our evangelical faith, and has not wavered whatsoever in respect to insisting that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, and that the pagans have no hope whatsoever outside of Him.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/6/14 8:48Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hey Robert,


About that message, what I was most struck by was what they heard the man say that made them begin to weep after being in the meeting where they had felt the prescence of God so strongly for hours.


The similarlity between that and your posting here in connection to what you experienced at the confrence was striking to me.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/6/14 8:59Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Chris and others,


Robert's comments here are very insightful,


"Do men gather grapes among prickly stabbing thorns?"


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/6/14 9:12Profile









 my brother ChrisJD

God bless you for turning me onto that message from Jim Cymbala. I had heard about him a few years back, but had never him speak, and what a blessing that was. Thank you so much.

I feel bad that I posted up some of Fred Phelps rantings. I didnt mean to start a bone of contention, it was just that I was so grieved over what I saw, it was like a tectbook of what NOT to do in preaching, witnessing testifying.

Maybe I should wipe the links, I dont't know, what do you think? Robert? Ginny?

I'd write a letter to Fred Phelps right now, but in my spirit, I don't feel it would be recieved.

Tell ya what I do feel, I'm sick at heart that I missed Barnsdall, just sick at heart. I was quite pressed out at that time, but hearing testimonies of God's working Power among the saints at Barnsdall, just fill my heart.

You're a dear brother Chris, thanks for that link. I downloaded the sermon, and will listen again to the whole of it.

May God bless you abundantly, neil

 2009/6/14 9:47
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
Mississippi

 Re: Ginny

Quote:
have told stories of a man who is an anger-holic and regularly beat his children with sticks, kicks to the groin, etc..psychological abuse and manipulation, terrible stuff.



This really does not surprise me now that you have said it. Phelps comes across to me as an angry person and I sure would hate to do [i]anything[/i] that could possibly offend him...and I would bet he is a man easily offended!

Yes, I agree with your evaluation of the destructiveness of such anger run unchecked. Makes one wonder why God is allowing it to continue? Having said this I am sure it will somewhere serve a useful purpose but do not know where that is at the moment.

BTW, are these guys being consistant by accepting monies from the government? monies paid in by gays....

Neil, you said in another post how you want to give time to writing...maybe you could write a piece of fiction and incorporate Phelps, et al into the story.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/6/14 9:49Profile









 Sister Ginny

Yes, I'm in concurrence with you, about not knowing why God allows this "ministry" to continue, but our minds, as I'm sure know better than me, cannnot fathom the Deep Things of God or His Purpose.

as far as my future writings? Praise God, He has given me a "non-fiction novel" with Christ very much in the center of it. (I can hear you saying "non-fiction novel, what IS THAT?) what I mean to say is that its the "heroic journey motif", and its set 150 years in a very recognizable future, therefore as I write of this world, it has to be real to me, as if this journey did indeed happen, and every detail of the world 150 years from now, very very real. Nine weak individuals having to go from point a to point b, and the only strength they have to make it, is by relying on the Lord........God is so good, and NO, its not "the shack"! (I'm laughing) My 13 year old son just devours books, and I'm writing it for him, which means it cant be boring. Please pray for me, for Divine inspiration. I love you, neil

 2009/6/14 10:08





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