"Fresh Bread from the ovens of Westboro Baptist Church"[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd0dtyr3ifw&feature=related]George Carlin is in hell[/url][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgJxQXzwizE&feature=related]Billy Graham going to hell[/url]please forgive me brethern, I don't mean to make light of this all, or be flippant, but I was web browsing and saw these video's from Fred Phelps, and I ponder why he is, the way he is.How Fred can take Truth and make it so.......I dont even know the word, but I had to put this up there, not for argument, but for illumination...oh by the way, I did not write those captions on the video.neil
Brother Neil,I watched the latter video and I was appaulled... I don't understand how people can call themselves followers of Christ and be filled with so much hate and venom. Jesus came as the epitome of love, He came to forgive and not to condemn. Sure there is a balance between God's wrath and God's mercy, but, unlike these people seem to portray, God forgave Israel time and time again... God tempers judgement with mercy. We are told in Ps 103 that God does not treat us as our sins deserve, but according to His great mercies He is forgiving and slow to anger.Whilst suffering on the cross, taking man's sins as His own, Jesus cried out.. Father, forgive them! He identified with the hungry and the naked, those in prison, those of lowly state as His own suffering, saying... when you do it not to the least of these, you do it not to me. What about the parable of the Good Samaritan?? Jesus placed the definition of 'neighbour' into a broader context. I believe we should love all sinners as Christ did: He layed down His life for us whilst we were dead in our sin. John said, If anyone says, 'I love God,' yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20) I don't believe that these words just extend to our brothers and sisters in Christ, but to our larger family whom Christ has called us to reach for Him, as mentioned in the parable of the Samaritan, along with so many other scriptures (too many to name!). I think we need to be aware of these hate mongers who perpetuate their destructive 'course' in the name of Christ. Just a little add on... I'm praying for Billy Graham... He was a man with a remarkable evangelism ministry who has been deceived in these last days, but I do believe God will temper judgement with mercy and restore His heart/mind before He dies. Praise God for His continued grace.
Billy Graham was very ecumenical. I question that there has basically been no discernment concerning him and his beliefs. I do not agree with the harshness of Phelps, obviously. But at the same time I will ask the above question (why no discernment?).please watch this video from John MacArthur (only 6 min): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odPpDTRjOcI will say Billy Grahaam did not have a remarkable evangelism ministry. I don't think it is remarkable to preach a gospel message then lead people off to talk to local Roman Catholic priests, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Anglicans, etc etc. I think that he lead many people to hell.
At the revival conference this year, I talked with several brothers about the "vagueness" we find in regard to God and salvation in some circles that are much more "ecumenical." I don't know Billy Graham's theology, as I've never personally studied him. However, my radar has gone up over the years after hearing several statements of his.The main problem that these "wider mercy" proponents have is that they are guilty of making God too mystical. He's very ghostly and abstract to them. Indeed, many in evangelical circles think of God as such. He's some abstract philosophical concept, He's some distant cosmic deity way off in the clouds. He's some personal force that lives inside of somebody. The rebuke to this is to be found in the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In the incarnation, when God became flesh, God showed He is not some sort of abstract deity. Rather, in the incarnation God became flesh and blood. The specificity of this actual event in time and space destroys any sort of abstract philosophical God. God actually became flesh, God actually died on a cross, and God actually came back to life and now reigns from heaven, all in the actual person of Jesus Christ. And if these events actually happened as we as Christians assert, then, there is simply no room whatsoever for any other religion and the "truth" and "salvation" offered in those "faiths." In the incarnation, God not only emptied Himself, He emptied all other religions of having any real value whatsoever, and showed them to be absolutely bankrupt.
I truly believe that one of the primary purposes of God visiting us in Barnsdall, OK was to challenge what seems to be an unloving and unmerciful spirit that will poison us as individuals and as groups of various kinds if we do not discern and forsake it. You will note that both the Sadducees, Pharisees and certain of the disciples had a very unloving 'spirit' about them before they received the Holy Spirit.They did not like children.They did not like prostitutes.They did not like Publicans.They did not like Herodians.They did not like sinners in general.They would pass by a beaten man with no compassion.They would request FIRE to fall from heaven on those that rejected Christ.(Just to name a few)And what did our Lord say, you know not what [u]manor[/u] of spirit you are of. There is a bitterness and an angry spirit that is not the Holy Spirit and that [i]lies at the door of every revival and repentance preachers doorstep.[/i] If we do not master it we will become a 'version' of Phelps. Whether it be a 'Phelps' a 'Phelps lite' or a 'Phelps extra lite' that angry, bitter ungodly poison will manifest.That poison spirit seems to manifest greatly in Phelps so-called ministry. I'm trying to play the ball and not the man here. Is what we see the fruit of the Spirit? We will know them NOT by their willingness to preach righteousness, holiness, hell, judgment, etc. [u]but by their fruits[/u]. Do men gather grapes among prickly stabbing thorns? We must know that the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. The FIRE of anger is not the [b]FIRE[/b] of the Holy Spirit. When one cannot discern the difference between anger and unction there is a move into the earthy, sensual and demonic. It seems to me to be the fire of hell that is being used to PREACH hell. Beloved, this ought not so to be.[color=000066]But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3)[/color]
_________________Robert Wurtz II
How Fred can take Truth and make it so.......
The problem Mr. Phelps has should not be with Billy Graham, but with his obvious lack of mercies and love for the Lost. It is easy to justify yourself through elevating your doctrine as righteousness. It was at the heart of the Pharisee's rebellion, and the thing that the Lord Jesus attacked continually, proving them to be hypocrites. The fruit of God is shown in the Agape Presence of Jesus, not in the pointing of the finger toward the failures of others. Jesus declared; "The Prostitutes and the drunkards shall enter the kingdom of God before you!"....to the Pharisees...and "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall likewise PERISH." Jesus spoke of a day, when many would say to the lord Jesus; "Did not we do many miracles and mighty deeds, in your Name?" Jesus replied; "Depart from Me you workers of iniquity, I never knew You! [into the fire that will never be quenched] ...."and in that day there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!"Many assume because their doctrinal stance and awareness of heresy will justify them, as Mr. Phelps here does, but in the reality of God iniquity is defined as an absence of true mercy, and compassion; IE, the good Samaritan. Which one was his brother? The use of derogatory slang for homosexual people is a disgrace, and most un-Christlike. It is grieving, I think, to the Holy Spirit, and the Lord who died for such a one, as he did for you and I in our Satanic Adam life. Which one is more disgusting; the greedy fornicator and pompous narcissist, or the soul caught up in the terrible bondage of Sodomy? In reality, unless we are cleansed and born again, we are all the same; LOST...and yes, in a burning Hell ever so real. In the END, it is all about Mercy; and I fear that Mr. Phelps is hardened to that most important heart fruit that God demands, and the lack of it will surely damn you. "But if you forgive not those who trespass against you; NEITHER WILL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER FORGIVE YOU!" We should fear, and be careful to manifest mercy for the weak and the sinner. Perhaps they will see Jesus, and repent, and be saved.
To Neil:Billy Graham will personally answer to Jesus for the apostacy that he is responsible for bringing into the Body of Christ---Jesus Christ's Church.Phelps is right on. Billy Graham is totally apostate. In fact, he was personally responsible for Living Bible being used by mainline Christianity"Tyndale House Publishers was founded by Taylor for the purpose of publishing his paraphrase, beginning with the Epistles as Living Letters in 1962.[color=990000] In the following year the evangelist Billy Graham offered Taylor's paraphrase as a television premium on broadcasts of his popular "Crusades," and this brought the book into prominence[/color]8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9).[b]The inspired Apostle Paul condemns in the strongest terms possible those who teach another Gospel other than the biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ. This means that Gods Word itself passes judgment on the souls of men who unrepentantly continue in their errors and persist in teaching wicked lies and the cunning fables of men in place of the true eternal Gospel of grace. Based upon this clear and direct curse pronounced upon them by the inspired Word of God we must conclude that the false teachers of false soul-damning gospels are accursed.[/b][b]SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?[/b][color=990000]GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer you know, I think theres the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether theyre conscious of it or not, theyre members of the Body of Christ. [How can anyone love Christ or know Christ and not be conscious of it (Rom. 8:9,16; 10:14; 1 John 3:24; 4:13; John 3:18)?] And I dont think that were going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that Gods purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And thats what God is doing today, Hes calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because theyve been called by God.[b] They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they dont have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that theyre going to be with us in heaven.[/color][/b][b]SCHULLER: Well, what I hear you saying, that its possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if theyve been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what youre saying?[/b][color=990000]GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. Ive met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but theyve believed in their hearts that there was a God, and theyve tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.[/color][b]SCHULLER: This is fantastic! Im so thrilled to hear you say that! Theres a wideness in Gods mercy![/b][color=990000]GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is. [/color][b]If youre not absolutely shocked by such sentiments then youve not been paying attention to Gods Word. Yet Billy Grahams unbiblical ecumenical madness isnt the recent product of a deranged and demented mind racked with age on the contrary such blatantly false teaching has for decades consistently spewed forth from the pulpits attended by Graham.It deeply saddens me to know that the man who became known as Americas Preacher is nevertheless guilty of turning his back on the The Risen Lord of Glory. And while we can rest assured that men will always disappoint us, I am filled with righteous indignation at the fact that not only has the dog returned to his vomit, but through his broad influence and shameless spiritual smut-peddling hes guilty of causing countless others who have followed in his footsteps to commit grave error through his example of rank apostasy.Billy Graham has led an entire generation of pastor-teachers down the slippery slope of doctrinal error and ends-justify-the-means pragmatism and his well established pattern of spiritual adultery with the likes of anti-Reformer Robert Schueller is highly documented and irrefutable.This article from WND is but one example of the clear and established pattern of compromise of Billy Graham. Grahams words in the linked article are eerily similar to the utterly unbiblical non-position taken by the apostate, anti-christ, Word of Faith arch-heretic and mouthpiece of Satan known as Joel Osteen when he was quizzed about whether or not non-Christians can go to heaven on CNNs Larry King Live television show:[/b][color=0000FF]KING: Because weve had ministers on who said, your record dont count. You either believe in Christ or you dont. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you dont no matter what youve done in your life, you aint.[/color][color=990000]OSTEEN: Yeah, I dont know. Theres probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if youre a believer in God, youre going to have some good works. I think its a cop-out to say Im a Christian but I dont ever do anything
[/color][color=0000FF]KING: What if youre Jewish or Muslim, you dont accept Christ at all?[/color][color=990000]OSTEEN: You know, Im very careful about saying who would and wouldnt go to heaven. I dont know
[/color][color=0000FF]KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? Theyre wrong, arent they?[/color][color=990000]OSTEEN: Well, I dont know if I believe theyre wrong. I believe heres what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a persons heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I dont know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I dont know. Ive seen their sincerity. So I dont know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.[/color][b]In case that response was too nuanced for our dear readers please allow me to translate for you: So long as youre sincere you may get go to heaven
maybe. Jesus may work for some of people who call themselves Christians like me Joel Osteen (*insert broad toothy grin*) and maybe theyre right
maybe Im right, but Im not too sure about that, in fact I really dont know, but hey, I dont want to drag you down or beat you up with the Bible! Just be encouraged, friend! Maybe Buddha or Baal or a tree or a rock or a cow or the Great Nothing or
works for you and if so, its all good just so long as youre sincere about whatever religion (or lack of thereof) you may (or may not) profess because Gawd has a wunnerful plah-yun fer yer life!Unbelievable! This is a supposedly Christian pastor whos squirming in his seat and giving unbiblical non-answers when quizzed about whether or not practicing, non-Christian Jews and Muslims are going to heaven! A small child whos paid any attention whatsoever during Sunday School could answer this simple and direct question! Was this not an opportunity to share the Gospel message? Is Osteen not a messenger of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Read the transcript again and decide for yourself in the light of infallible scripture.[/b][color=0000FF]With these and similar consistent statements in mind and based upon the crystal clear teaching found in Galatians 1:8-9 the sad conclusion that is reached is that Joel Osteen, like Billy Graham, must be deemed as an accursed, apostate, false teacher and a rank heretic. We can see this clearly because in the singular moment that Smilin Joel had in which to decide if he should risk the vaporization his fawning media coverage and the obliteration his seeker friendly status by proclaiming the exclusive and narrow way of Christ, he chose obedience to his father the devil and sought after the praise of men instead of being faithful to the Risen Lord of Glory Jesus Christ and His eternal Gospel of grace. Joel Osteen is a friend of the world, and we know from Scripture that whosoever is friends with the world is at enmity with God Almighty.Based upon these exact same types of evidences we must also conclude that Billy Graham is in fact an enemy of the One True and Living God who has forsaken his first love. Unfortunately he is so iconic within the modern professing church that many, if not most, would prefer to turn a blind eye to his manifold errors than expose them, and this is perhaps the gravest disservice of all. For those who true are born-again believers in Jesus Christ are to exhort and correct our fellow professing believers, not enable them in the error of their ways. But since the body of Christ has become derelict in its duty and for decades has been more than happy to leave a fool to his folly we find that Billy Grahams apostasy is older than you think.Futhermore in this short audio file Pastor John MacArthur astutely and irrefutably links the apostate universalism espoused by the harlot Roman Catholic Church, Billy Graham, and Robert Schueller which is the exact same demonic pack of lies that is being parroted by the arch-heretic Joel Osteen in the CNN transcript quote shown above. These heretical and unscriptural teachings are undeniably present in modern day evangelicalism and they are just as spiritually deadly and poisonous as ever.For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:21)[/color][color=990000]From Biblical Discernment Ministries: Billy Graham General Teachings/ActivitiesFifty years of compromise have increased Billy Grahams popularity but have resulted in a serious loss of spiritual discernment and Scriptural convictions. Fifty years of compromise have brought Billy Graham into close fellowship and cooperation with millions of those who preach a false gospel and teach dangerous, unscriptural doctrines. His refusal to warn about the false gospel preached by the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches is inexcusable and indefensible. His failure to warn about the dangers of the wildfire teachings of charismatic leaders opens the door for millions of believers to be deceived. Fifty years of compromise have even led Billy Graham into joining with leaders of pagan, heathen religions on the basis of a mutual search for world peace (March- May 1991 Foundation, p. 16).[/color]Continue reading BDMs absolutely devastating article on Billy Grahams copious history of damnably false and pernicious teachings here:[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/graham/general.htm]Billy Graham General Teaching and Activities[/url][url=http://defendingcontending.com/2008/11/03/billy-grahams-apostasy/]Billy Grahams Apostacy[/url]Sincerely,Walter
Robert, What you shared reminded me [b]so much[/b] of something that Pastor Cymbala shared in this message [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1479&commentView=itemComments]here[/url], beginning around the 53:30 minute mark. [b]The correspondence is to me striking.[/b]
_________________Christopher Joel Dandrow
Hi Robert...You wrote some very good words. It is interesting to remember that Pharisees didn't like the Sadducees (and vice versa). It seems like the only people that they liked were those who agreed with them on nearly every issue. It is amazing how quickly some people are willing to send someone to Hell! The Word says that the Lord isn't willing for ANYONE to perish...but that ALL would come to repentance (II Peter 3:9). There are definitely some false doctrines out there...and I don't know either if these men well enough to know what they teach or believe (or to sort between truth and rumor). More importantly, I don't pretend to know the validity of their faith. I have, however, met people who came to Christ as the result of Billy Graham's ministry. In fact, I have met two very authentic missionaries who were saved at Billy Graham meetings.
It seems to me to be the fire of hell that is being used to PREACH hell. Beloved, this ought not so to be.