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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are YOU 100% Sure YOU Are Saved?

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bible1985
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 354


 Re:

that is exactly the same argument i have brought up to those who believe you can lose your salvation by their works or their continued sin, their lack of works. Then it would be a works salvation which the Bible teaches will not get you saved.It is the grace of God which gives you faith to trust in his son, your faith or what i like to say God given faith. It is by nothing we do, the only thing it is because of Gods grace by faith. The only way if it was possible for you to lose your salvation is if you could lose your faith in christ, but works have nothing to do with it at all, because they our all abominable already. You made a great point, don't let anyone tell you different brother, seriously that is truth, keep it up. I have brought this before too others and what they our doing is turning this into their owns works salvation, not faith. And also a true born again believer will not want to sin or think it is a license to sin because God has changed his desires, that is huge misunderstanding of conversion and our new nature. God bless you.

 2009/6/9 0:58Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:
that is exactly the same argument i have brought up to those who believe you can lose your salvation by their works or their continued sin, their lack of works. Then it would be a works salvation which the Bible teaches will not get you saved.It is the grace of God which gives you faith to trust in his son, your faith or what i like to say God given faith. It is by nothing we do, the only thing it is because of Gods grace by faith. The only way if it was possible for you to lose your salvation is if you could lose your faith in christ, but works have nothing to do with it at all, because they our all abominable already. You made a great point, don't let anyone tell you different brother, seriously that is truth, keep it up. I have brought this before too others and what they our doing is turning this into their owns works salvation, not faith. And also a true born again believer will not want to sin or think it is a license to sin because God has changed his desires, that is huge misunderstanding of conversion and our new nature. God bless you.



Just curious - how do you justify your statements against the following scripture and how do you interpret the following scripture. I am not saying you are wrong nor suggesting we can work our way to salvation and heaven just giving you some scripture to think about and chew on in light of you statement.

James 2:21,24-25
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

[b](24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.[/b]

(25) Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?


here it is in context

Jas 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (18) But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.(19) You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! (20) But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? (21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? (22) Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? (23) And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. (24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. (25) Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? (26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


God bless,

Patrick
www.jonahproject.org


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Patrick Ersig

 2009/6/9 1:25Profile
polo247uk
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Joined: 2006/12/21
Posts: 26
Princes Risborough, England

 Re: Are YOU 100% Sure YOU Are Saved?

I am 100% Sure i am Saved

cos i am 100% sure that what my Lord Jesus did for me.
My Hope and my Joy is there and there alone.
Thank you Lord i am 100% saved.
Oh what a joy it is to be in Christ and Christ be in me oh prise the name of Jesus there is no other name that will make you 100% SURE.
Bless you all.


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Paulo West

 2009/6/9 3:12Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Just my two cents: I'm 100% sure I'm saved, and I'm 100% sure that salvation is by grace through faith in the obedience of the One, Jesus Christ, in His death and resurrection. I'm also 100% sure that should this faith of mine (which really isn't mine, but His), be no more, then I'm 100% sure I would go to hell.

I believe like any good Calvinist, that enduring and persevering faith is a requirement of eternal life. Where I differ with my Calvinist brothers is the belief that this is an automatic thing that will occur. I believe according to Philippians, that He who began a good work in me will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus. But if you look at the verse before that, Paul talks about that in the context of us continuing on in the faith by which we stand.

I believe it's God's will for my life to endure until the end, and that He will keep me by His power by faith. But for some reason should I choose to depart from the faith, while He exhorts me not to depart, He will not stop me from doing such.

I've personally known several people who were clearly saved, and who clearly bore the fruit of salvation and had the witness of the Holy Spirit decide to do this very thing. They were not false converts. Perhaps some of them will come back around, and my Calvinist brother's five point belief system will be vindicated. But should they not, I will not say they were false converts because they didn't endure until the end.

If you are not allowed to go by genuine discernment of their fruits to tell if others are really saved, then one is incapable of discerning their own personal salvation by the discernment of one's own fruit. Then one comes to the place of the Dutch Reformed, who teach that it's not really possible to know if one is really saved except by one's enduring and persevering faith, which one won't know until one's death bed.

My personal testimony is that I've seen people full of faith and full of the fruit of the Spirit fall away from the faith. If you believe in cheap grace, you'll say that person is going to heaven just the same. But such is clearly doctrinal error and has nothing to do with Biblical faith or salvation or grace.


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Jimmy H

 2009/6/9 7:19Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Just adding two more cents.

It seems rather precarious…to hope not to make the wrong choice someday.


John 15:16 (ESV) You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide…

1 John 2:19 (ESV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Jude 1:24 (ESV) Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy.


God's power is able to keep the believer from falling away. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.


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TJ

 2009/6/9 8:37Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Amen :-)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2009/6/9 8:57Profile









 Re:

Christisking wrote:

"James 2:21,24-25
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?"

Abraham offered Isaac by faith as well. He heard God's command to do this first, then acted on faith that God knew what He was doing. Rarely would anyone atttempt to kill their first born unless they have faith in the one who told them to do so. But I understand the dilemma here with what James says about works. I wonder if James means justified in terms of being a child of God or justified in receiving his reward of 'all nations being blessed through him.' That's a half hearted opinion... because I'm not totally sure of all that myself. Blessings.

All of Romans 4 talks about Abraham justified by faith. This is why Jesus told the Pharisees that they were not children of Abraham but children of the devil. They would not receive the Messiah in faith as Abraham received the commands of the Father in faith. The Pharisees still wanted to earn their way to heaven and would just have the Messiah destroy all their enemies instead of die for their sins.

Here are scriptures mentioning Abraham and faith. Peace to you.

Romans 4:12
And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.


Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.


Galatians 3:8
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."


Galatians 3:9
So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.


Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

I do believe that faith comes before works. But our works aren't for our own salvation but as obedient children to do the work of the Lord for His glory. I take Paul to mean in one of the scriptures that justification by faith allows us to let go of our own works for our own salvation... which allows us now to move forward in bearing fruit in the Spirit for the glory of God and not to boast in our own fleshly works as to be recognized in a more selfish, pretentious, manner.

 2009/6/9 9:50
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christisking wrote:
...states that someone can live in continual willful sin...

This caught my eye.

Is this in contrast to continusl unwillful sin?
I don't get it.

 2009/6/9 17:26Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]John 15:2[/b] [color=990000]Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he prunes it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[b]:3[/b] Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[b]:4[/b] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.[/color]

[b]Verse Two:[/b] What does it mean that one is not bearing fruit?
It can't mean that he isn't abiding in HIM.
It means that bearing fruit is a choice on our part to obediance.

If one abides in HIM but doesnot choose to bear fruit (works), then he is toast.

[b]Verse Four:[/b] What does it mean "he that abides in Me" but to choose to remain in Him?

Therefore, there are two things which we must to on our part of this relationship with the Father through Christ (which is eternal life John 17:3); we must choose to have works (obey), and choose to remain in Him.

If we do not choose to have fruit (works) it is proof that you are not choosing to believe (have faith) in Him, therefore,. HE will "take you away" from the Vine.

If we do not choose to abide in Him, you can not have the good fruit which is eternal in value.

 2009/6/9 17:42Profile
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

Logic

what does bearing fruit(works) mean in a believers life?

rdg

 2009/6/9 18:22Profile





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