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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Is God willing to grant a huge revival in these last days?

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DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Is God willing to grant a huge revival in these last days?

Dear brothers and sisters,

I have a burning question in my heart concerning “revival”: [i]“WILL God bring a huge revival to this world?”[/i] I do not question the power of God to give it, but the WILL of God to grant it. I pray and hope that some of you can help me out with this if God has made this clear to you through His word.

I myself doubt if God wants to bring a huge revival to this world. It is not that I do not have a burning heart for revival. I desire to experience a spiritual awakening of sleeping Christians. I desire to see Christians getting serious with God and His word again. I desire to see God work powerfully and to see lots of people repent. But if I read the Bible I do not find a single promise in the New Testament that tells us that God will bring revival in the last days. I only read about declension in the days before Jesus will come again.

I read for example in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 [i]“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths"[/i]

Well, I do not have to explain these verses, because this is exactly what is going on in Churches. Teachers do not preach what God wants to preach, but what men want to hear. I do not find a hint for revival in this verse…I do find an encouragement for us though: [i]“But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry” (:5)[/i].

I came across a verse in 1 Peter 4:17: [i]“For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God…”[/i]. Ravenhill said in his sermon “Are we longing for repentance”: [i]“This was eating the heart of Jesus when He stood in the temple…They had altars, but they had no fire, they had preachers, but no anointing..."[/i]. The lukewarmness is a judgement of Christ to us. We do not have the fire of God anymore. Every Sunday-morning the preacher says: “where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them”. But if this would be true, the Church would not be so dead as it is.

In Luke Jesus says: [i]“However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8)[/i]. Or in John 9: [i]“As long as it is day, we must do the work of Him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work” (John 9:4)[/i].

I question myself. If God really wants to give a revival in these last days, why has He not made this known in the New Testament? Or has He (can someone explain that to me)? Ravenhill thought there would come a revival. Wilkerson thinks so…and a lot more. But on what ground?

Often preachers refer to the Old Testament. I believe the OT to be Gods Word and I want to tremble at His word (Isaiah 66:2), but why should God only speak about revival in the OT and not in the NT (directly!)? He speaks in the NT about the importance of Christ dying on the Cross. He speaks about the importance of His resurrection. He speaks about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. He speaks about the fullness of Christ in our personal life. He speaks about the coming of Christ. He speaks about the coming Judgement. He speaks about the coming darkness and lukewarmness and fake revivals. Why does He not speak about a coming godly revival?

Summarised…I would like to put my thoughts (which are still questions) this way: “I believe in revival. But not in a mass revival like in the days of Jonathan Edwards. I believe that true Christians will rise in these last days and preach His message boldly. I believe that those people will receive power and anointing from the Holy Spirit, but I also believe that those people will not always be loved. Many of them will be rejected and thrown out of the Church like Jesus was thrown out of the temple and rejected by the religious leaders!”

Why do I believe that? Well…in Revelation it says: [i]“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” (22:11)[/i]. In my Bible it says to those who are filthy: [i]“let him become filthier”[/i] and to those who are holy: [i]“let him become more holy”[/i].

I do not say that we should give up. No, no, no. We have to press on! Till Jesus comes again, we must work His works and we must pray and preach and live totally committed to Christ. We are His witnesses. And I pray that God still will give opportunities to share His message and that people will be changed forever. I pray that He will work mightily and I pray the verses of Isaiah with all of my heart: [i]“Oh, that Thou wouldest rend the heavens, that Thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at Thy presence-- as when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil-- to make Thy name known to Thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at Thy presence" (Isaiah 64:1-2)[/i]
Let it not be that God has to say when we stand before Him: [i]“I looked for a man among you who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none” (Ezekiel 22:30)[/i].

My question only is…tells God in His word that He will bring revival at the end of times (as a promise)? Or may I pray for it and may God in His mercy still grant it? Or are we just seeking after revival out of selfishness, because WE love to see Gods glory and want OUR lives to be happy and comfortable?

In Christ,

Paul

p.s. please forgive me if some sentences are grammatically incorrect or odd. I am not a native speaker :-o ;-)


_________________
Paul

 2004/8/28 13:28Profile
lwpray
Member



Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re: Is God willing to grant a huge revival in these last days?



The frontier Church in the end time focuses:
Quality rather than quantity
Testimony rather than success
Genuineness rather than conceit
Controversy rather than unity
Otherness rather than cultural adjustment
Cross rather than affluence
Therefore, the Christians will be a conscious minority surrounded by an arrogant militant paganism.




_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/8/28 13:53Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Is God willing to grant a huge revival in these last days?

Gods plan is his church, not revival per se. If you had to read Pauls prayers in Ephesians and Colossians, you would note that what he is praying for is a state of living which would constitute someone living in revival.

Zeke


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/8/28 14:17Profile
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

In my country there has never been a louder cry for revival, but there has also never been less commitment to Christ.

This cry for revival is selfish. It is humanism. It is all about the hapiness of men. We want revival, but we do not want to surrender absolutely. We want miracles, but we hate obedience. We want revelation, but the revelation God has given in the Bible is considered irrelevant to this time (because it demands total obedience).

It would not amaze me if this cry will actually bring forth a revival. A revival that will be emotional and superficial, without repentance, devotion and true Bibleteaching. It will be as fake as a true fake revival can be. And all the "Christians" who do not want to serve God with their hearts and lives will say: YOU SEE, GOD IS WORKING! Many people will be deceived and they will rejoice in all the extraordinary things that will happen. [i]"Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve" (2 Cor 11:14-15)[/i]

More and more I see that revival should not be our aim. Revival is not God's end, it could be His mean. Absolute surrender to God should be our aim and [b]that[/b] God can use to bring revival. It is easy to cry out for revival, but it is hard to cry out for absolute surrender. We may want revival (the kind of revival most people believe in: power, joy, happiness, miracles, huge crowds -note: I do not believe in such a revival!) but I doubt if we want to surrender ourselves absolutely. But that is what is precious to God! Persons that surrender completely!

Still, I am seeking for an answer from Gods Word to this question: [i]"Will God bring a revival in these last days?"[/i]. I agree with what Lars shared:

Quote:
The frontier Church in the end time focuses:
Quality rather than quantity
Testimony rather than success
Genuineness rather than conceit
Controversy rather than unity
Otherness rather than cultural adjustment
Cross rather than affluence
Therefore, the Christians will be a conscious minority surrounded by an arrogant militant paganism.



I think Zeke is also right when he said:

Quote:
Gods plan is his church, not revival per se



Through different things my focus has changed a little. Not revival should be my aim, but knowing God and to surrender. First I thought I had to lead souls to Christ, but God taught me, through the ministry of Keith Daniel: [i]"When a man is absolutely surrendered to God. And God fills him with the Holy Spirit. From that moment that man is led by God to souls"[/i] And that is not merely a word from mister Daniel. It is a word from God, because He proves this as He sent Philip straight away to the Ethopian. He sent Paul to Jerusalem to preach and minister. He led Peter to this cripple man! God will lead us to souls God wants us to speak to and than...we have a great responsibility: [i]"The possibility of death places on me a grave responsibility toward every soul, God and man expected me to witness too"[/i] or to quote the tremendous words of God in Proverbs: [i]"Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter" (Proverbs 24:11)[/i] or in Jude 22-23 [i]"Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them..." [/i]

So...I am grateful for that. I have learned not to focus on revival. I have learned that revival is not God's end. I am learning that absolute surrender is Gods desire for our lives and He wants us to follow Him with our heart...not merely with our deeds. Still, this leaves me with this question: [i]"Has God promised a revival to come in these last days or not?"[/i] So many great preachers preach about it but I do not find it in the word. Can anyone share with me what Gods word says about revival concerning the last days?

In Him,

Paul


_________________
Paul

 2004/8/30 13:59Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: revival/surrender

Paul,

Quote:
More and more I see that revival should not be our aim. Revival is not God's end, it could be His mean. Absolute surrender to God should be our aim and that God can use to bring revival. It is easy to cry out for revival, but it is hard to cry out for absolute surrender


I am finding that this is what the Lord has been trying to show me as well. There is a link between absolute surrender and revival. Though the most important thing is surrender, the latter may come if people would "lay it all down" and not worry about anything else. No ulterior motives- just surrender EVERYTHING (rights and will) because He is worthy. If we get something else (like revival) so be it.

The more I talk to Christians (even mature Christians) there is a definite lack of total surrender. This is grieving the Lord.

I am thinking that He gets tired of us coming to Him all the time just asking, asking (even if it's for His benefit or others). Today I caught myself asking, asking again "Lord show me your will, Lord help me..., Lord..." I stopped myself and said "ok, Lord this time is for You, how can I minister to You?"

There are so many things that "Seem" good (like revival) but it's not the most important. HE IS.

Oh, that we learn to surrender our wills, requests, time, ministries, bodies, thoughts, money, possessions, families, careers, status, our right to be right, our right to be Someone. May we lay it all down and be an empty vessel with no preconceived ideas, or wants or desires. Just be filled with HIM.

In Him, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2004/8/30 15:12Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re:

It's a great topic for discussion.

I believe true surrender is what God wants from each of us. Once we surrender, we need to be purged of sin and deep repentance must occur.

Does God want revival in this hour? I believe so if we're willing to pay the cost. The cost is total surrender to the will of God. Unless one is wlling to do this, then it will never occur (how can it?).

It takes some courage and humility to admit to God that I need to be revived. My candle is out of oil. Once we begin to seek the face of God with a heart that says it's not them, it's me Jesus. I need to be revived.

Once we begin to do this corporately and we die together at the cross, we'll begin to see God's hand move in our hearts and lives.


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Ed Pugh

 2004/8/30 20:37Profile









 Re: Thoughts on the "where" of revival.

My dear brother Paul,
Bless God for your post and bless God for this cyber fellowship we have.

I don't know if God will grace our countries with revival, and I say this, because both are countries are not BROKEN, do not live in brokeness. We're too rich, we rely on our human devices. (not us exactly, but the secular tribe we claim lineage with)

In prayer, both secret and group, the Holy Spirit keeps whispering San Paolo, as in Brazil. I'm telling you, I can feel it, in some slum neighborhood, in a crummy storefront, or old factory, God's Holy Spirit is pouring down His fire on the faithful saints. The chairs are plastic, the floor is grimy and concrete, the bulbs are bare, hanging down from the ceiling, but people are meeting with God and walking from the dark into Light. A revival, and its so far out from the glare of the press, but around that storefront a company of angelic beings stand guard, and a chorus of heavenly ones sing a new song, oh it must be wonderful! Think about it; Azusa Street was just an old barn with wooden benches put up on old nail barrels, and the pulpit was two wooden shoe boxes stood end on end, and yet as Frank Bartleman said "in that old building with its low rafters and bare floors, God took strong men and women to pieces and put them together again for His glory".

God will always use the weak to confound the strong, and I say this in just abject shame, we are Rome, maybe even Babylon. We kill 40 million babies a year in this country, our armed legions stand atop numerous countries, we worship idols, (doubt me? look at the filth in the magazine racks in our grocery stores) our priests and pastors, holy leaders dress and manicure themselves like business men, and worship the powerful of the land, exhorting us to "pray for our leaders". ...while we stand by as we enable them to build these beautiful edifices, these "mega-churches". (my stomach is turning as I type this)

Revival, REAL revival will never again come to America, this land is too evil, they have chosen their gods.

Please forgive me for speaking harshly, let me close by saying, that the thought of this storefront somewhere in Brazil, where our Lord Jesus is coming down in power, gives me such comfort and such hope, He is so good, and I love Him so, and I thank Him for loving me, because I am so unworthy.

Tearfully,
In Christ,
Neil G.

 2004/8/31 2:05
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

First of all, thanks for all the answers...I think that in a way my question is being answered with the only correct answer: surrender. We may search the whole Bible to find an indication for revival, but revival will not come to pass unless we surrender personally.

I'm still very interested in the thoughts of all of you about revival in these last days? I read a thread in which Greg said something about a revival that purifies the pure and will make the wicked do more wickedness, according to Revelation 22:11 (if I'm wrong Greg...shoot me :-o ). I also think more in that direction as I already explained in earlier replies, but I would like to hear your views on revival in these last days as God revealed it to you through the Bible!

And may I specify the question a little bit :-P...does anyone know why Leonard Ravenhill believed in a revival to come? Does anyone know why David Wilkerson preaches about revival to come???

Ok...right now, I'll be going to get a bit offtopic (but ok, I’ve started it, so I guess I’m allowed to :-P:-P)...Well it's not that unrelated, because it's all about surrender. I just wanted to share it with you all…It's about how I thought revival had to come in my church and area and how God corrected me and learned/learns me about His divine work. I think that maybe many young Christians battle with this (or are still unaware of it). They want truth, the true God and they want to do something about the lukewarmness in Church. That was the case with me anyway…Don’t be terrified:-) by the length of this “article” …ENDURE brothers and sisters :-P. I hope it may be a blessing to you…

[b]Gods work still is GODS work[/b]
[i]"When a man is absolutely surrendered to God, and God fills him with the Holy Spirit. From that moment that man is led by God to souls.."[/i]
- Keith Daniel

So many times I question the true power of God to work. I am burdened with a desire to preach, but now I have learned that this burden displays a lack of faith. I thought I needed to help God.

If God was going to work, I needed to preach. But I was wrong. If God is going to work, GOD is going to work! And He does not need me for that! Just as we can pray with wrong motives (James 4:4), we can preach with wrong motives.

Sometimes we can be to focused on the external. We think that, if God is going to work, we need to do something. We need to cry his message from the pulpit. We really NEED to preach. I believe that some of us should, because God has called them to do so...but to me this burden to preach was mixed with honest desires, a weeping heart for the "sleeping" Church and a lack of faith!

In his message Keith Daniel at one moment says that we are called to people, we are called to preach. But at the end of the sermon he concludes by saying...we are called to pray!

I thought I had to lead souls to God, but what God says: I will lead souls to you! If you absolutely surrender, I will bring people on the way that you are walking with Me. How hard it is, to wait upon the Lord (Psalm 27:14). My soul, wait thou only upon God (Psalm 62:9)

God CAN work even when there has not been preached one single godly message. The closet is not the place where people go to and see our devotion to Christ. We meet them at Church. The closet is not the place about which we can say afterwards: "ok, now the people have heard the message, let God work". No, no men will ever hear what is said in that room, but that is not important: GOD has heard it. And only He can do something about it!

We need to be taught by God in the closet. And learning from God takes time. It is just as sir Mott said: "The men that will change the colleges and seminaries here represented are the men that will spend the most time alone with God. It takes time for the fires to burn. It takes time for God to draw near and for us to know that He is there. It takes time to assimilate His truth. You ask me, How much time? I do not know. I know it means time enough to forget time."

It’s true that our time desperately needs men of God who will preach. But God in the first place needs surrendered men. People who don’t seek after popularity (popularity can be a snare to us Christians, even if we preach with an upright heart!). People who acknowledge their weakness. I read a quote some time ago and it really touched me. It’s something I’m struggling with: “I want to preach”. The quote’s like this: [i]“It ought to be just as easy for a minister to take a back seat, and wait for the Lord, as it is for the natural soul to want to be on that platform.”[/i] God needs people who have given up all the “I-know-how-to-do-it”-stuff and who have begun to see that only the Holy Spirit is what is necessary for God to accomplish His works. It aren’t OUR works, it’s His work! Neither method nor wisdom will do, only He can do it!!

“The organised church today emphasises what a person says and what a person does but pays little attention to what a person is.
Many young workers earnestly desire to be able to speak with power, long for eloquence, yearn to be able to preach brilliantly in order to move and help people. They fail to realise that this in not the vital point. The vital issue is: Who and what are you? The thing of value, the pre-eminently important matter is, not that you are given a gift and therefore you are able to speak but that you know the Lord and therefore you speak.
We have not gathered a company of young workers here in order to teach them doctrine or even the Bible, or in order to teach them to preach the gospel or to seek gifts or even power, but to help them to be better men and women, to learn the Cross.” – Watchman Nee

A godly man once said: [i]“God is not interested in my preaching, my heart for mission, my passion for Israel or my books. He is not interested a single bit if I have not surrendered my will totally to Him. You can do much in the kingdom of God and still keep hold of your own will!”[/i]. We really need to get rid of our old self; we need to put it of. It’s already dead and it stinks and God will never exalt our old self. He will give His honor to no one but Him!

God will give us preachers, if we are willing to pray. It’s not what you are going to get out of God, it’s what He’s going to get out of you! It takes God a lot of time to make something out of us, but give Him time!

Wowww, there’s so much to say about this, but may I share with you something I learned from the history of Elijah in 1 Kings 17-18. He was fed for some years at a lonely brook. No preaching, no people to speak to, no awesome deeds or applause from the audience, nothing…only some irritating birds that brought him some meat. But God taught him that he needed to depend only upon God. He taught him to surrender completely. And when he had learned a bit from that (I think we can never enough learn to surrender and to trust God) the brook dried up! It was time for Elijah to put into practice what he had learned.

Oh, God didn’t immediately let him to mount Carmel to set that altar on fire. No, he first let him to the widow of Zarephath to say: [i]“The jar of flour will not be used up and the jug of oil will not run dry until the day the Lord gives rain on the land” (1 Kings 17:14)[/i]. After that the son of the widow died and Elijah took this boy up to HIS room and laid him on HIS bed (you see, he took it seriously and the boy became a burden to him to pray for). God raised this kid up. Elijah knew it wasn’t he but God who did the work! After that time, God was able to use Elijah for his purpose on the mount Carmel. Never think that those other things where less worth to God. No way! But now God could use Elijah on the mount Carmel. Where all those priests shouted and shouted and screamed and cried, Elijah only prayed a simple prayer! Simply because it wasn’t Elijah but the God of Elijah who finished the job!

Let us be willing to learn from God in our upperroom. Not to teach others, not to make a good sermon, but just to encounter God and to learn from Him. If we start doing this, who knows what God will bring afterwards. Moody once supremely stated: [i]"The men who have been permitted to do higher things are the men that began with small things…The more we use the means and opportunities we have, the more will our ability and our opportunities be increased.”[/i] But this could make us think that our service is not significant in advancing God’s kingdom, if we’re not doing great things. [i]“Now, if every one of us did something every day, if it is what we call a little thing, but if it is done for the Master, mark you, it is not a little thing”![/i]

Let us not think that we are only useful to God when we preach or pray in public. We’re useful when we surrender. God will be able to use us wherever we go if we will surrender ourselves to Him absolutely. God cannot use a preacher that is not fully surrendered, but He can use an "ordinary" man that is!

Let us surrender absolutely!


_________________
Paul

 2004/9/19 14:00Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: more surrender

Paul,

Praise God for your thoughts posted here. The Lord has been impressing so much of this on me while I've been more quiet lately. About not hoping or striving to be anything more than a surrendered vessel. Not making my own plans, my own agenda, my own ideas of how things should be. I even read just yesterday from Oswald Chambers about simplicity in prayer- which I may post in another thread. But really as we surrender, we stop all of this striving in the flesh, that many times we think is striving in the spirit.

Even today in my prayer time, I was asking the Lord how He wanted our little family to worship Him today (since we are mostly out of the churchs here). He impressed upon me so clearly that He wanted us as a family to have peace between us, to show unconditional love to each other and display the fruits of the spirit which He has put in us. It was no "thing" we were supposed to do, no place we were supposed to go, no routine. Just show His love through ourselves. Let Him love others through ourselves. So that's what we are focusing on today. :-) Surrender and simplicity.

In His perfect love, Chanin

p.s. sorry his has nothing to do with revival :-(


_________________
Chanin

 2004/9/19 14:22Profile
Willo
Member



Joined: 2004/9/21
Posts: 355
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

 Re: Is God willing to grant a huge revival in these last days?

Well this is just my personal opinion, but I believe based on 2 Peter 3:9 that God in His mercy will allow one more great world wide revival that will be greater than the spread of the gospel in the book of Acts.

But before revival comes I believe that we as the body of Christ will have to turn back to holy living. There is no if very little preaching on Holy living today from the pulpits. Revival starts in the church, then it spreads to the streets.


_________________
Josh Williamson

 2004/10/8 5:46Profile





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