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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa EMERGENT??

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 My dear dear brother Chris

There have been times that I disagreed with Brother Natan on certain issues

These "certain issues" have been of a strategic geopolitical/military nature of which I have always been in the right, seeing as I possess a "Davidic" gift for war and strategy.........

[b]I'm teasing Chris![/b] (sort I'm completely teasing)

You know Chris, intelligence work was my first job, my first love, and I was just thinking the other day, when the DPRK started acting up, I would have had 32 years in the halls of analysis. Who knows where I'd be now, in regards to national security, but God in is His Wisdom removed me...nothing bad, I just saw a few things and got sour. Nothing I want to go into, except that I dont abide, I cant say, but anyway, my individual prayer, is that I may be of some service to the Ministry of the Word, and I share in your heartspace of esteeming you better than myself.....we share in a High and Heavenly calling, all of us, it takes my breath away, awe-struck, and I will continue to encourage you, I pray for you, I pray for the Body of Christ, and close with this; everything gonna be alright, [b]we KNOW this...amen.[/b]

in Jesus love, neil xo

 2009/5/30 18:50


well spoke sir!

well spoke indeed!

I keep putting off buying a printer, I must not tarry on this, as many saints here have been speaking words of "balm in Gilead" as from the very Throne itself.

well spoke, God bless you brother, I love you in Jesus' love, neil

 2009/5/30 18:58

 Re: .... EMERGENT??


[b]PHASE ONE:[/b]

The first phase of the dialectic, THESIS, is "THE THESIS INTERROGATION." It involves three sub-phases that lead each person within a diverse group setting from the initial sub-phase of 1) stating his position (thesis) to the compromising, feelings-laden effect of 2) defining the meaning of his position, aided by the facilitator, while trying not to offend others in the group (antithesis). This sub-phase deliberately produces internal conflict, known as cognitive dissonance, which I consider micro-terrorism. This internal tension is the natural response we have when we want to be accepted by others yet realize that our position, if strongly held to, will most likely stand in the way of that happening. The pain induced by this sub-phase of anxiety forces us to 3) the self-realization (synthesis) that because we cannot properly define our position, comfortably change it, or rationally defend it, we are not its cause.

Christians need to realize that they can never properly define, comfortably change, or rationally defend the word of God to the world's satisfaction, not even for the sake of relationship building. We can only accept it as truth and preach it. There is no room for dialogue such as "I think..." or "I feel..." in the hope of finding common ground with the world. According to God's Word, to do so is to commit adultery with the world.

THESIS—"THESIS INTERROGATION" where the facilitator sets the individual up.

thesis—position—stating one's belief such as a thesis or position paper.

antithesis—definition—interpreting what one means to others with differing views.

synthesis—self-realization—realizing the source of one's (limiting) position.

[b]PHASE TWO:[/b]

The "Thesis Interrogation" leads into the second phase of the dialectic process, ANTITHESIS, what I call "CLIMATE or ENVIRONMENT CONTROL for the purpose of RELATIONSHIP BUILDING." Most behavioral modification takes place in this phase. It also involves three sub-phases that bring all participants into a group-think experience. Beginning with the "right" to negate all or at least most prior "cannot," "should not," and "must not" rules and commands set by parents, teachers, government, or God—that interfere with relationship building—each individual is given an equal opportunity to explore and discover the beliefs and values held by others within the group. This first sub-phase, "negation of negation," or saying no to restraining commands (thesis), leads into the second sub-phase of "conflict," or chaos (anti-thesis), that, with the help of the facilitator, is followed by the final sub-phase of "mediation," or conflict-resolution training (synthesis).

[b]continues on to PHASE THREE, Etc..[/b] excerpt from Dean Gotcher on "Diaprax" in the Church.

[url=]Good-bye Sola-Scriptura![/url]

[url=]A threat or not a threat?[/url]

 2009/5/30 19:13

 Re: Jesus -is-God

are you referencing McLarens' stuff. "Emergent"?

as I have been investigating there is a wide gulf between "Emergent" and the loose grouping of what can be called "emerging" least that's the way I read it.

Personally, I'm of the firm conviction that if any HUMAN denies the Bible, as the Word of God, any human who lifts up the Holy Ghost and signs and manifestations above Jesus, all are adrift, destined to go onto the shoals of error, that said I would resist "labels", other than "follower of Jesus".

I couldnt understand any of that stuff you pasted, who would supp from such swill?

sounds like that new age babble that tormented my ears when I lived in a very dark community by the name of Topanga.....gotta go

much love in Jesus, neil

 2009/5/30 19:30

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone.

I wonder if I could share just a bit more here.

During the time that I've been speaking to others about the Gospel, I've also found there has been many times of confrontation.

Just tonight, I was called a devil after suggesting to a group of people that were preaching in public to others about obeying the commands of Christ, that the Lord Jesus told us to love our enemies.

As I recall it, the man speaking said to me that I was not one of the enemies that Christ commanded to love, and this is when he called me a devil. Afterwards I objected to those listening, saying to them that the man had just called me this without knowing anything about me. One of the people nearby spoke up and asked me what did the word devil mean.

I said at first 'a deciever', and then afterwards, that it means slanderer.

I do sympathise with those who feel compelled to challenge error and other things that they percieve as destructive. I also feel, and this I think from experience, of the great difficulty and danger in doing so and our great need of wisdom and grace from God.

I believe that there must be a way for us to turn many to rightesouness [b]and[/b] shine like the stars of heaven, to let our light so shine before men that they see our good works and glorify God, that there is a word and a mouth that none of our adversaries can gainsay or resist, and sound speech that cannot be condemened.

And this, and not rather, that in trying to oppose the adversary, we would become like him.

I wish you all well.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/5/30 23:23Profile

 Re: Wikipedia?????

Hello Natan4Jesus:

You went online to Wikipedia to find the meaning of the Emergent Church? I used Google, and found hundreds of other links than Wikipedia, that explain exactly what it is, and what it is has no relationship to what Wikipedia has to say.

What follows is a in-depth study that goes into detail about the Emergent Church that is forming before our very eyes, and getting ready to march into the Tribulation===The Emergent Church where Biblical Doctrine is no longer required.

The Emergent Church is forming before our eyes!

To bring yourself up to speed, a excellent place to go to is:

Understand the Times Ministry of Roger Oakland
An International Missionary Outreach Dedicated to Evangelizing the Lost and Equipping the Church for Discernment

You may not have heard of "The Emerging Church but chances are you have been exposed to it's methods. Below are many articles and commentary about this movement.

Commentary by Roger Oakland exposing the Emerging Church:

The Inclusive Gospel

New Spiritual Disciplines From Ancient Roman Catholic Sources

Are Emerging Church Critics Too Critical?

Drumming Up "Jesus"

Home To Rome

The Emergence Of The Eucharist In The Emerging Church

Exposing The Emerging Church

What Ever Happened to The Bible?

How to Know When the Emerging Church Shows Signs of Emerging in Your Church

The Emerging Church And Bible Prophecy

Reemerging Of The Emerging Church

The Emerging Church: Another Road To Rome

The Emerging Church: Last Days Apostasy and a Return To Darkness

Other articles exposing the Emerging Church:
Brian McLaren on Change and the Emerging Church 5/15/08

Catholics Join Emerging Church Conversation - 3/13/09
Missional Church Movement - The Next Big Thing? - 3/13/09
Most Americans Pick and Choose Religious Beliefs - 1/12/09
Emergent's Divergence - Leaders hope decentralizing power will revitalize the movement - 12/18/08
Schullers' rift centers on 'Hour of Power' - 10/27/08
Beatles songs as likely to explain Christianity as the Bible, says bishop - 10/19/08
A Monastic Kind of LifeHow Catholic religious communities are trying to attract young people again - 10/14/08
Emerging Leader Urges Christians to Shape Culture from Within - 10/12/08
'Emerging church' seeks the justice Jesus sought - 6/5/08
Interview: Brian McLaren on Change and the Emerging Church - 5/15/08
Church Basement Roadshow Press Release - 5/15/08
Global Summit comes to Orange County - 5/13/08
Richard Foster's Life with God - 5/6/08
Becoming a Purpose-Filled Woman - 5/4/08
Christianity without Christ - 5/3/08
Warren will lead 40 Days of Purpose in New York City - 5/1/08
The next peace - 4/26/08
Lessen focus on eternity, McLaren says at Willow Creek student ministries conference - 4/18/08
Spiritual path can take unexpected turns - 3/28/08
Reworked Bible stories feature Goliath as a drunk and Eve as sex mad - 3/26/08
Taking Christ out of Christianity - 3/22/08
Children of a modern God - 3/16/08
Feeling Renewed By Ancient Traditions - 3/8/08
Gregorian chant leads revival of church's music - 3/8/08
'Conspirators' Bring Together New Styles of Christianity - 3/7/08
No Future for Methodists Unless Change Occurs, Say Leaders - 3/3/08
'Conspirators' Plot New Ways to Be Christian - 2/28/08
Mars Hill Pastor Ditches 'Emerging' Label for Jesus - 2/27/08
Monk leads young people in meditation - 2/22/08
Brian McLaren: Postmodern Christianity Understood as Story - 2/18/08
Portrait of Christianity in the Next 1,000 Years - 2/9/08
Ancient-Future People - 2/8/08
Pastor Argues Faith is Missing Link - 2/5/08
Leader urges evangelicals to heal the world - 2/1/08
Amid growth, church congregations sprout - 1/20/08
Author's Brand Of Christianity Strikes a Chord With Young Adults - 1/19/08
Cultural Architect: Why Churches are Declining in America - 1/15/08
More Americans' spiritual growth nurtured within - 1/14/08
To believe, or not to believe: Author examines what moves people toward or away from God, church - 1/12/08
Study: What brought people to church may not keep them there - 1/11/08
In Search of a Label? (by Brian Mclaren) - 1/3/08
News Alert - The Collapse Of The Emerging Church And The Kingdom Of God - 1/4/08
Filling spiritual voids, not just pews - 12/31/07
Reform find inspiration in mega-church techniques - 12/31/07
Rob Bell: Christians shouldn't fear controversy over doctrine - 12/21/07
Emerging Pastor to Young Believers: Ask Anything - 12/17/07
Keating moved the movement - 12/14/07
Sitting in silence - 12/14/07
Praying with a mantra - 12/14/07
Trends Analysis: Americans Reformulating Christianity - 12/4/07
What Leaders Can Learn from Rob Bell - 11/26/07
Christian meditation finds a sanctuary at Georgetown University - 11/14/07
Let the labyrinth take the lead - 11/11/07
Kid contemplatives: UW neuroscientist's project aims to give middle-schoolers tools of 'mindfulness' and meditation - 11/8/07
A Dominican Ashram: Friends of God - 11/7/07
Mission Meets Innovation at Largest Outreach Convention - 11/7/07
Church Losing the Institution, Following Jesus - 11/2/07
Got sin? YouTube, shredders your modern confessional - New ways to confess your sins point to a revival of the ancient religious rite - 10/30/07
What is Robert Schuller 'rethinking'? - 10/30/07
Holy Spirits! Aussies turn pub into church - 10/29/07
Spiritual Wellness Week to help de-stress students - 10/29/07
Mass appeal to Latin tradition - 10/28/07
Couple brings Zen enlightenment to Toledo - 10/27/07
Campolo: 'Time to Start Taking Jesus Seriously' - 10/18/07
Catalyst Powers Up Next Generation Leaders for Christ - 10/5/07
'Evangelical Prophet' to Speak on Campus - 10/5/07
Novelist tackles pastor's faith journey through St. Francis of Assisi - 10/5/07
Woman looks to various denominations for mystical guidance - 9/28/07
Prof sees a role for ancient spiritual practices - 9/28/07
Anglicans look to 'emerging church' to heal wounds - 9/27/07
Zondervan / National Pastor's Convention & Events - 9/27/07
High-Tech Churches Worry Traditional Worshippers - 9/26/07
How to Harness Millennials for Christ - 9/25/07
U2charists combine U2 music and worship in Wellington church - 9/9/07
Contemplative prayer branches out from Catholicism to all Christianity - 4/18/07
Thousands Pray to 3 Miracle Icons - 4/12/07
U2charist Comes to Trinity Church - 1/20/07
Will the 21st Be the Orthodox Century? - 1/4/07
From the margins, a new center is emerging - 11/25/06
Evangelical Author Puts Progressive Spin On Traditional Faith - 9/10/06
New Faithful Practice Away From Churches - 7/10/06
Contemplative Prayer - Emerging Church and Roman Catholicism - 5/29/06
Reemerging Of The Emerging Church - 5/2/06
The Emerging Church And Bible Prophecy - 4/10/06
McLaren's Position on Hell and Homosexuality - 4/1/06
Emerging church' mixes constructive criticism with errors - 2/2/06
The Emergent Church Markets Catholicism
Christianity Defaced
Emerging Church Indoctrinates with Catholic Style Eastern Mysticism
News Alert

Plans Changed for Bob Coy and the Exponential Conference - 10/12/07
'Velvet Elvis' Author Encourages Exploration of Doubts - 9/18/07
Feeling the beat: The spiritual side of drum circles - 3/10/07
Evangelical Author Puts Progressive Spin On Traditional Faith - 10/25/06




Natan4Jesus wrote:
are you referencing McLarens' stuff. "Emergent"?

as I have been investigating there is a wide gulf between "Emergent" and the loose grouping of what can be called "emerging" least that's the way I read it.

Personally, I'm of the firm conviction that if any HUMAN denies the Bible, as the Word of God, any human who lifts up the Holy Ghost and signs and manifestations above Jesus, all are adrift, destined to go onto the shoals of error, that said I would resist "labels", other than "follower of Jesus".

I couldnt understand any of that stuff you pasted, who would supp from such swill?

sounds like that new age babble that tormented my ears when I lived in a very dark community by the name of Topanga.....gotta go

much love in Jesus, neil

 2009/5/30 23:37


thank you for that testimony, and word.

I can only imagine what that street corner confrontation must have been like, it even breaks my heart, as I sit typing this..terrible.

just terrible, I can only imagine what those around who do not know the Riches of Christ, the Shalom of the Lord, what must they have been thinking......

"look how they love one another".


I'll bet those Christ-less souls were very envious of our so great a salvation.

I'm very sorry that happened to you Chris, how do we change that?

you see, thats the part of the, let me call it "emerging conversation" that I don't mind, that I don't feel denies the Riches and the Glory of a life lived IN Christ, IN Messiah, that we are different, that we live in love because God is love, as John so beautifully puts it in 1st John Chapter 4. That we shine as sons and daughters of Light in a crooked and twisted generation, who have been fooled by a crooked and twisted world.

when do we as the Body of Christ have that conversation? We obviously can always start the first part of this conversation on our knees before God, that is an imperative, foundational, but the second part, the horizontal part, me to you (for example) thats the tough one.

Below this post, my response to you, there's a very long walter post to me, not talking with me, but at me, I saw a bunch of links, I saw some questioning of me reading from wikipedia, and I'll do the man the respect of reading his post, going to a few links, being open, but in the end, methinks I'm just going to get a very hard-hearted, brittle offering that will not resonate in the corridors of my heart. Such is the way of religion.

You know what "religion" is to me? Religion is a fellow strapping 70 pounds of mil-spec C-4 plastique on his body, with nails and marbles, and blows himself up with 100 souls, women and children. Religion is to me, a poor soul, who has been "accused" of heresy tied to a stake with brush and tar pitch, and then set on fire.

I depise religion, and the hard heart of self righteous man, so wrapped tight in their fleshly self righteousness. Oh, I love Jesus! I love God! I long to live in Gods Heart, sing in the New Jerusalem, with countless saints, but "religion" see, that's why a dialogue is starting, on the fringes of the Body of Christ, I am not the only one that feels this way, so many others have been bound in the tight chains of ecclesiastical bondage, and sectarianism, and denominationalism, and right now, that fringe, that conversation is called "emerging", because people NEED labels....and like every new thing God does, there will ALWAYS be fierce vehement opposition from the old order......and you know what?

Two things, if Jesus isnt at the center, it will fail, and as Gamaliel so correctly pointed out in Acts, if this thing is NOT of God, it will fail. That I know.

in Jesus' love . neil

now what do I write to walter?

 2009/5/31 1:54

 dear dear Walter

You went online to Wikipedia to find the meaning of the Emergent Church?

yes, I did. Gives me a concise overview.

I used Google, and found hundreds of other links than Wikipedia, that explain exactly what it is, and what it is has no relationship to what Wikipedia has to say.

excellent, I frequently use google too, and I know that there is a dividing line between "Emergent" and "emerging church".

You see Walter, I'm not you, and you're not me. I don't say this in insult, I am positive that God gave you gifts as He is a loving Father. One of the gifts he gave me, and I praise His Name everyday single for it, is a facile mind, meaning there are certain things I'm "closed hand", and others that I am "open hand", for instance I am "closed hand" about this:

Jesus is Son of God, Messiah, His Blood atones for the sins of man, who believe that He is the Risen Son of God, and that the Bible is the THE Word of God, period, end of sentence.

Closed hand, absolute.

Walter, I went to many of Roger Oakland's articles that you posted, because I am of open mind, I've googled some of his video's, and I've watched and read a lot now, in fact I'm listening to his voice right now, and quite frankly, I dont read McLaren, listen to Driscoll, dont practice new age nonsense, and on and on.

so all I have to say is may God love and bless you, Roger Oakland, et al, work out your own salvations with fear and trembling.

Now Walter, dear brother, I listened to your friend Roger, can you listen to my friend, Duncan Campbell, speaking on "Heart Preparation for Revival ,you'll like it. Its from this site, and at last check, I'm absolutely positive Dear Greg Gordon has not gone off the rails.

[url=]Heart Preparation for Revival[/url]

That is the type of preaching I listen to, as well as the daily Bible reading and prayer, just so you know what terrain I camp in.

Love you Walter, in Jesus love, neil (natan is my Hebrew name..yes, I come from them. )

 2009/5/31 2:37

Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97



Christisking wrote:
Calvary Chapel slips deeper into the emergent model

What is meant by "emergent model" or the phrase "emergent church"? Are they preaching another gospel? If so, what is the message they preach? I have heard this term (emergent church) many times, but am not sure I understand what is meant by it.

God bless,

Patrick Ersig

Well Patrick a better question might be: Do they preach?


 2009/5/31 2:49Profile

Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


The Dialectic process is just what you mentioned which also works in person. It's actually what's happening in the PDC (in person) and in the Emerging Churches (in person) in all their small groups. It's also in internet forums, and more new internet forums are popping up weekly, such as these as you know. For others who don't know anything about the Dialectic Process which is also a part of Marxism, here's another description of what Marxist people are doing who have taken over those false churches and other false churches are being built as well with new names to try to stand out seeming like they are not of the Emergent/ing False churches, but they are. ~~[b]This is how the Marxist-Dialectic Process works - we all come together share our own thoughts, we don't get God's Authority on things, but the rules is to converse "respectfully" (which is a false peace) since others may not be of our "belief" so we must 'be silent' about what God's Authority says.[/b] And then once many put in their own ideas it then comes to consensus of the group and once again you have a Purpose Driven Internet Forum or in person what you suggested ormondotvos, that gets futher from The Bible and God's Authority on any topic to slowly, post by post which is a faster pase (faster than blogs), be turned it into a group compromised of God's Heavenly Father's Authority and away from God's Word because 'the group decided' (let us make a tower and a reputation...) what's best and what's true. It then becomes, 'Thus saith the group!' But since this gather together in-person or on Internet Forums, (even the so called Christian Forums - WATCH OUT and though you might think your trying to Evangelize others to Christ in them - your not - that's the cloak and the deception), is Marxism (the dialectic process) this means what the group agrees on may not be true for next week, it's always "changing". And as long as it's "changing" (a key Maxist's word these days without using God's Word or Authority) away from The Heavenly Father's Authority then the Dialectic Process formula is right on course and it's deceiving others by they hundreds of thoughts if not by the millions! Most false churches are getting on board with more internet forums to spread their Dialectic Process false teaching. If you all want to great write up on this here it is: [b][url=][/url][/b] Just don't be deceived beloved if you are in an Internet Forum "discussing and trying to understanding each other for the greater good and peace on earth, dialoguing back and forth, keeping rules made by men which are controlled by Facilitators (Admin's and Moderators etc.) you have hocked yourself in the World Wide doctrines of demons which men have called "Marxism - The Dialectic Process". God bless those of you who are His and who are warning all men preaching and teaching Christ Jesus with all Wisdom (from God) so that they might present every man (who repents and believes the Gospel) perfect in Christ Jesus.

Taken from [url=]here.[/url]

My question is: How to deal with a drunk person? If you talk to him he cannot understand, because he is drunk (or brainwashed if you like), so, how to deal with drunk in order to get sober about the realities in and around them?

 2009/5/31 9:01Profile

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