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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : OT Born Again Example

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 Re: I'm not tracking this right

I'm laughing, not at you brothers, just in the joy of finding Messiah, finding Jesus all thru the Tanakh, one of my favorites is when Jesus wrestles with Jacob by the banks of the Jabbok river all night long, and Jacob won't let Him go till He blesses him......another passage I love is Eldad and Medad, when they still have the Spirit resting on them, and some busybody complains to Joshua who complains to Moses, and Moses basically says, "would to God all the people have the Spirit rest on them, and that paryer was answered in Acts 2......oh, and who can forget the Four Suffering Servant Songs in Isaiah, blessed Scripture!! (hint look from Isaiah 42 to 54)

Messiah is come!!!

 2009/5/28 16:11

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Jeff, Let's first establish the book of Job is about suffering.

I would suggest that Job is a book in which Satan suggests that God's people serve Him only when He blesses them or when things are favorable. There are many lessons in Job, but the one from the beginning to end is that Satan is a liar and God proves it.

Robert Wurtz II

 2009/5/28 16:43Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Brother Benjamin wrote;

God’s judgment of Elihu is that he darkened counsel by words (Job 38:2) the very charge that Elihu had brought against Job. (Job 34:35; 35:16). Also, the dialogue of God to Job is free from any of the accusations Elihu stated.

This is not according to Scripture...

When God begins to speak out of the whirlwind, verse 2 of Job 38 is God's accusation against Job alone. We know this to be true because of Job's reply. Job confesses his guilt before God in the following Scripture...

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
3 You asked, “Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.

Please notice that in verse 3 above Job is the one who confesses to God not Elihu.

Here is a testimony given by Elihu...

Job 33
3 My words come from my upright heart;
My lips utter pure knowledge.
4 The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5 If you can answer me,
Set your words in order before me;
Take your stand.
6 Truly I am as your spokesman before God;
I also have been formed out of clay.
7 Surely no fear of me will terrify you,
Nor will my hand be heavy on you.

Do you believe Elihu's testimony is true?

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/28 18:08Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Are you the brother who once lived in, was it Topanga Canyon, wrote:

I'm laughing, not at you brothers, just in the joy of finding Messiah, finding Jesus all thru the Tanakh,

Jesus is the Holy One of Israel found throughout the OT.

Look up Jacob Prasch for his teaching of Christ in the OT.

God Bless

Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/28 18:25Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Hi Sis,

Specifically, I am requesting that you change your style (if only for me) from asking questions about OT texts, to a declamation of your belief on this point.

I believe what these Scriptures say...
14 For God may speak in one way, or in another,
Yet man does not perceive it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
When deep sleep falls upon men,
While slumbering on their beds,
16 Then He opens the ears of men,
And seals their instruction.
17 In order to turn man from his deed,
And conceal pride from man,
18 He keeps back his soul from the Pit,
And his life from perishing by the sword.
19 “Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
And with strong pain in many of his bones,
20 So that his life abhors bread,
And his soul succulent food.
21 His flesh wastes away from sight,
And his bones stick out which once were not seen.
22 Yes, his soul draws near the Pit,
And his life to the executioners.
23 “If there is a messenger for him,
A mediator, one among a thousand,
To show man His uprightness,
24 Then He is gracious to him, and says,
“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;
25 His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.
26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.
27 Then he looks at men and says,
“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
And it did not profit me.’
28 He will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
And his life shall see the light.
29 “Behold, God works all these things,
Twice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

Identify the NT precepts in the above Scripture, how many can you find?

Here is a start...who in the NT declares He is the 'light of life."
God Bless
In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2009/5/28 18:54Profile

Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


Jeff asked:

Do you believe Elihu's testimony is true?

Jeff, can you show anywhere else in scripture Elihu's testimony is true. Can you find anywhere God confirmed Elihu's Testimony?
Verse 3: Our hearts deceive us. And He said MY WORDS...not God's words, or the Spirit of the Lord is upon me to say this to you.
Verse 4: is true for all
Verse 5: Who made Elihu Job's Judge and Jury?
Verse 6: NO ONE is our spokesman before God except Jesus Christ.
Verse 7: Just exactly who does Elihu think he is?

Did he ever say...the Lord sent me to you, or I am a prophet?

When we go through suffering, as we all will, one must be very careful to avoid Elihu's coming along wanting to be your Holy Spirit and conscience.

Only those who have actually gone through any suffering KNOWING through these things we see more clearly the Holiness of God, and just how small we are in comparison. This is what God revealed to Job AND what Job confessed before God.

Jeff, what exactly does James say about Job?

James 5:10-12

10Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

11Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

And what does James say about Elihu?

12But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

I believe James is saying here, be very careful what you say to others going through the Fellowship of His sufferings!

Again Jeff, you used a couple verses in Job to somehow try to prove OT people were Born Again, and that there is some mystery in youthful flesh and answered prayer.

You totally missed the whole point of the book of Job. I believe James clarifies the meaning quite well!


R.G. Benjamin

 2009/5/29 8:52Profile


Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

--- the three friends that needed to repent of [make sacrifice for] their words. Elihu Not Included.

There isn't a scholar in history that hasn't written that Elihu was Correct - because Job "justified himself before GOD - at GOD's expense."

 2009/5/29 10:10


Hi Brother Jeff.

Would you consider all of Hebrews 11 and focus then on the end verses.

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us should not be made perfect.

GOD Bless you.

 2009/5/29 10:20

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7509



For me to take [i]anything[/i] these three fellows say as being authoritative is dangerous, even though it [i]appears[/i] to be right on. The reason is God's testimony in Job 42:7,8:
"It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has. 8"Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job."

The Enemy will use truth, pervert it to get an hearing. Everytime. Hence, my reluctance to quote these OT windbags because it says they did not speak for God. Actually, while I find a lot of inspiring truth in their arguments, I will never quote them because God did not like their arguments.

My testimony about Job is that it teaches us so much about affliction and how other religious people will respond to your affliction. In Job 13:4 he calls these windbags 'physicians'. If indeed these fellows were doctors, they likely came with all their potions to treat Job's sores. They did what doctors do and sat back to see how it would work. So, when at the end of seven days and they saw no progress, they start out by saying it is because Job sinned ....Sound familiar? I think so....go through affliction and listen to all the 'comfort' that comes your way...

My understanding...


Sandra Miller

 2009/5/29 10:23Profile


Are you the brother who once lived in, was it Topanga Canyon,


Jesus is the Holy One of Israel found throughout the OT.

thank you, not meaning to sound snarky, I had that revealed to me by the Holy Spirit.

Look up Jacob Prasch for his teaching of Christ in the OT.

thanks for the info, neil

 2009/5/29 11:16

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