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CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Christian rock music....?

After recently listening to a christian rock albulm that's, let's just say heavier than average, I've started considering the following issue.

Chritian rock music...good or bad?

The particular band the raised my eyebrows was Stavesacre. I was very impressed with their lyrical content which, in my opinion, would shame many a preacher out there with their call for undiluted surrender to God.

Anyone with any thoughts? :smart:


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/8/22 2:57Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
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 Re: Christian rock music....?

The Bible never uses 'Christian' as an adjective. Can we have a 'Christian' anything?


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Ron Bailey

 2004/8/22 4:24Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
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 Re:



This is an excellent comment, I must say. . .

As we sit under the teaching and preaching of some of the real men of God, it is also appropriate to point out that Tozer and Wilkerson, to mention but two, has some pregnant and penetrating things to say regarding this issue.
There is a tread going right now labelled "Entertainment" containing comments by Tozer.
Lars


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/8/22 4:42Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
The Bible never uses 'Christian' as an adjective. Can we have a 'Christian' anything?



Here we go again, arguing over "terminology" rather than concepts, and realities.

What if I'd named the thread "Can rock music glorify God?" or "Rock music being used as a tool for evangelism?"..would that have been more palatable?

The way I see it, people go to concerts for enterainment. People listen to CDs for entertainment. Some people listen to preaching for entertainment.

Lets face it, it is nice to listen to something that conforms with our own interpretation of what God is saying, especially if it confronts or contradicts with something that we can't accept or tolerate...whether justified or not.

My question was intended to be understood as "Can heavy music that portrays a message that would line up with scripture, without watering down the gospel, glorify God, if the music be of a heavy nature?" Really the question would ask if this could be considered a fushion of something idolatrous with something pure, creating something impure, or can it be considered an "out of the box" meathod of commuicating eternal truth.

Is this a Levite working for Micah for 10 shekels and a shirt, or is this the Apostle Paul, refering to the temple of the "unknown god". Mmmmm...so much to consider...even without considering whether "christian" should be used as an adjective or a noun:-P.


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/8/22 10:31Profile
sermonindex
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
My question was intended to be understood as "Can heavy music that portrays a message that would line up with scripture, without watering down the gospel, glorify God, if the music be of a heavy nature?" Really the question would ask if this could be considered a fushion of something idolatrous with something pure, creating something impure, or can it be considered an "out of the box" meathod of commuicating eternal truth.



Brother I am not sure what you are exactly referring to.. either if Christian Rock Music (or if there is such a thing as Ron pointed out) is permissible for us to listen to for our personal enjoyment and edificition [b]or[/b] if Christian Rock Music is permissible to be used as an contextualization tool for the unsaved or barely church-ed. I am starting to see personally from God for my own walk with Christ that it [i]is[/i] permissible but not benefical in all cases. We are to seek perfection and personally I would like to hear the whole truth or to get it in as you said an most un-dilluted form as possible.

I encourage you to listen to this message by Keith Daniel. It might come across abit strong and you might say to yourself this is going to far but give it a chance and prayerful consideration, many things this man said in reference to wordly music in the church has really shaped and primarly confirmed my convictions on the matter:

[b][url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224]The Power of Prayer (video)[/url] [/b] by Keith Daniel - [i]This is a powerful video preached at brother Bill Gothard's church. This is part of Keith Daniel's 13th visit to America and he gives a solemn warning to the Church of Jesus Christ we must pray before its too late. There is a digression in the sermon on the topic of music but its application finds itself in that the church should not use wordly methods to win the world it will not work! The main thrust of the sermon is preached from ephesians 6 and the emphasis is that the church needs to get into warfare on their knees.[/i]

Other quotes that are thrown around in the past in these forums pertaining to this topic:

"You can't win the world by being like the world, the world will only win you!"
-Keith Daniel

"Entertainment is the devils subsitute for joy."
-Leonard Ravenhill

"We need to be a different breed of people on this earth."
-Leonard Ravenhill

I would encourage you to read some materials by A.W. Tozer on this subject. As for the bible we could get into alot of verses and the contexts of society that show the people of God had a signifigant different way of worshipping God through music then the secular culture around them. These are just some of my thoughts.. let me know what your thoughts are on that video if you get a chance brother.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/8/22 11:57Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
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 Re:

Shall listen to when I get the chance. Just for trivia's sake, I believe that it was Charles Wesley's early hymns that took "drinking songs" from the day, and altered the words, so that people were familiar with the tune of the song.

Another interesting thing is the Kieth Daniel, doesn't like modern worship songs. In his sermon on The Book of James, he mentions that the church he's preaching in still sings the "old hymns".

So this opens up another fork. Are modern day choruses by the likes of Hillsong, and Hosanna, etc edifying? If so, then where do we draw the line, with bands like Delerious, Third Day and Skillet, being a little heavier than commonly accepted?

One common trend, lyrically, that I have noticed, is that the heavier the music, the more scriptural insight there seems to be, with "death metal (as a genre)" bands dealing heavily with repentance and like issues. I mentioned the band "Stavesacre" at the beinging of this thread, as a band that inspired me to consider this issue.

What can I say, "So many pidgeons, where's a cat when you need one? ... Oh!! here's one."


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/8/22 12:22Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Christian rock music....?

In regards to music in general, based on what I have heard, (where most of our opinions come from) the devil cannot create anything. From the presumptions of some the posts e.g:

Quote:

"You can't win the world by being like the world, the world will only win you!"
-Keith Daniel


it has been established that rock music is 'of the world.'

So in regards to rock music, did the devil create that, or was it something that has been distorted? If this has been chewed already, forgive me I have had no time to look.

As much as I respect the men mentioned in this thread, does personal preference over style and form constitute something being ungodly?

Zeke


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/8/22 16:10Profile
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 Re: Another Fork

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:
So this opens up another fork. Are modern day choruses by the likes of Hillsong, and Hosanna, etc edifying?



Sure they may be edifying, but the thing that we started questioning in our church was the theology of the songs that came out of that. What I mean is singing about me, myself and I. How God can meet [b]my[/b] needs, and how much [b]I[/b] need him, and not glorifying the majesty of Christ.

Zeke


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/8/22 16:26Profile
Yodi
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Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re: Christian rock music....?

[laughs] Sorry, had to laugh at the fact that Stavesacre is labled as hard on here. My goodness, you'd die if you heard the likes of, let's say, Living Sacrifice! Ummm... but that's not the point. Honestly, I like Stavesacre. I own their best hits album. They have very encouraging lyrics.

I guess the only thing I really have to say on this topic is you really do have to test what has a "Christian" label on it. I've had experiences where I can't even trust a "Christian" bookstore to sell stuff that isn't against what the Bible has to say about things. I think you have to handle something like this on a case by case basis. You can't lable or judge all band that are "hard" as Stavesacre to be good or bad. You have to just screen each band for yourself, no matter how "hard", "soft" or whatever. Just be like the Bereans, and their example is in the Bible.


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Yolanda Fields

 2004/8/22 19:27Profile
Saint_Ferg
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Joined: 2004/1/22
Posts: 12
Belfast

 Re:

As far as the genre question goes, much of todays rock/pop R&B etc. has stemmed from gospel music likewise jazz, blues etc.

It's more the specific influences that surround the musical styling of the bands in question that would concern me.

I was very amused listening to a tape of my dads as we were driving together that I couldn't make out a single word they said, the very same complaint that is constantly made to me when talking about my own preferences but just as he was hugely blessed by a sound that I found both indecipherable and noise pollution. I am regularly in the same boat when listening to lines telling me that "faithful are the wounds He brings" and songs like Gomer's theme by Third Day I am so blessed and challenged but the sound, is both indecipherable and noise pollution to others


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Jonathan Ferguson

 2004/8/22 19:54Profile





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