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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1Corth.1.17

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 1Corth.1.17

[b]"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."[/b]

If I preach from my intellect I am only drawing converts to my way of thinking.. . . . How can I change that?


 2009/5/6 16:11
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: 1Corth.1.17

Paul's secret: "For I determined to know nothing
among you except Christ; and Him crucified."
The gospel is centered upon the work of the cross,
upon what GOD in Christ has done for us. Keep the
focus on Christ, the cross, and Him crucified and
what that means for us as sinners in need of a
Savior!!


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Martin G. Smith

 2009/5/6 16:21Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re: 1Corth.1.17

What Paul is talking about here is the Greek's love of rhetoric. To the corinthian mind at that time a person's ability to put together a fine speech, so to speak, was more important than the truthfullness of the content of what was said. Paul relied on the power of the truth of the Gospel rather than on the power of words.

A Catholic Friar in the late 1400's, called by some historians the first Protetstant, faced the same problem Paul faced. I have a book about him called "The Life and Times of Giralomo Savornarola." Here's a section of that book that illustrates the verse pretty good:

Quote:
Fra Mariano da Genazzano, a monk of the Augustinian order, was then preaching in Santo Spirito, and the great church proved too small for the crowds flocking to hear him. This Fra Mariano was in high favor with the Medici, who had erected a convent for him outside the Porta San Gallo, to which Lorenzo the Magnificent--in his desire to prove the universality of his knowledge--often repaired to discuss theology with him. He had a great reputation in Florence, and especially among the literary men of the Court, who all flocked to hear him and praised him to the skies. Poliziano gives an eloquent description of the orator's merits, in a very beautiful letter, but unconsciously to himslef,his praises betray the faults of preacher and congregation alike.

"I went," writes Poliziano to his freind, Tristano Calco, "feeling badly disposed, and mistrustful of the great praises I had heard of him. But no sooner did I enter the church than the preacher's appearance, his habit and his face, wrought a revulsion in my feelings, and I at once desired and expected great things. I confess to thee, that he frequently seemed to soar to a gigantic height in the pulpit, far beyond all human proportions. And now, behold, he begins to speak! [i]I am all ears to the musical voice, the chosen words, the grand sentences. Then I note the clauses, recognize the periods, am swayed by their harmonious cadence, etc.[/i]"(italics in the original)

Thus, even a man of Poliziano's great taste and learning, was principally struck by the preacher's choice of words and harmonious periods. the friar's name has indeed been forgotten by posterity; but contmeporaries extolled him to the sky, and so far, Savonarola was completely overshadowed by this rival. Even Girolamo Benivieni, already his faithful follower, said to him: "Father, one cannot deny that your doctrine is true, useful, and necessary; but your manner of delivering it lacks grace, especially as it is daily compared with that of Fra Mariano." To which Savonarola made reply, almost in anger: "[b]These verbal elegancies and ornaments will have to give way to sound doctrine simply preached.[/b]"



Savornarlo's response in bold is what Paul was saying in ICor 1:17


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/5/6 16:49Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

1 Corinthians 1:23-31 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Like Paul, never preach unless the cross of Christ is in the forefront of teaching and rely heavily on the Spirit of Christ that is in you and the Holy Spirit Teacher of whom Jesus Gave us to speak of this Christ only that is in us.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

As Paul had to confront Peter for siding with the Jews, who were preaching Hypocrisies, deceit and condemnation under the Law. So must we stand in the Pure Truth of the Cross and the Christ in us by the Sealing of the Holy Spirit and preach Christ and Him crucified.

Galatians 2:11-21 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Preach Christ in Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/5/6 19:28Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2779
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: 1Corth.1.17

Quote:
How can I change that?



You can take a tip from George Muller to change that. George was invited to preach his first sermon at a small country church in Prussia. He skimmed through his many books, found a Bible passage to preach on, and wrote and re-wrote his half-hour sermon until it was perfect. The big morning came and he delivered the sermon flawlessly, putting the right emphasis on the words and pausing for effect at just the right moments.

After the sermon the poor country folk thanked George but they hadn't really understood anything he said. What he thought was a masterpiece had been dead and irrelevant to his hearers.

After that George determined to preach using simple words and ideas, and he would quote only from the Bible. Later that afternoon he had a chance to speak again, he was originally going to deliver the same sermon, but he put away his notes and opened the Bible and prayed, asking the Lord to simply show him what He wanted him to say that afternoon.With that he opened his Bible to Matthew 5 where he had been reading that morning in his devotional time. Before long some ideas came to him based around the verse "blessed are the poor in spirit." There would be no fancy sounding sermon that afternoon, just some simple thoughts from the New Testament.

When the congregation left that afternoon there were smiles on their faces, they had learned something, and so had George.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2009/5/6 21:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:
When the congregation left that afternoon there were smiles on their faces, they had learned something, and so had George.



I would imagine that if they had learned anything, smiles wouldn't be on the faces.

Question: Why was the exhortation by Jesus given: ". . . behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." . . . "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Lu 24.49; Acts 1.4,5.

This He spoke to his disciples after they were born again. See John 20.22.


 2009/5/7 8:08
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7511
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
I would imagine that if they had learned anything, smiles wouldn't be on the faces.



Intense, perhaps you missed the point: Mueller had preached in the morning a 'fine' sermon, one the people did not get. Then in the afternoon he preached again to the same people and now they understood. This fact alone could put a 'smile on their face'. There is nothing more annoying then sitting through a sermon and not having a clue what is being said, or you feel like the guy is showing off his rhetoric skills. You feel like you are wasting your time because you are.

Yes, I can well understand the people's reaction.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2009/5/7 8:42Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Quote:
I would imagine that if they had learned anything, smiles wouldn't be on the faces.



Intense, perhaps you missed the point: Mueller had preached in the morning a 'fine' sermon, one the people did not get. Then in the afternoon he preached again to the same people and now they understood. This fact alone could put a 'smile on their face'. There is nothing more annoying then sitting through a sermon and not having a clue what is being said, or you feel like the guy is showing off his rhetoric skills. You feel like you are wasting your time because you are.

Yes, I can well understand the people's reaction.

Blessings,
ginnyrose



Or have it revealed by the Holy Spirit, that your life in Christ is poorly lived out in you.

Oh, I get the point quite well.

Any one who shakes the hand of the hand of the preacher at the door when leaving the service and says, "I enjoyed your message", says at least two things: The preacher said nothing that speaks of striving for perfection in Christ or that person wasn't saved.

 2009/5/7 11:05









 Re:

Quote:
1Corth.1.17
"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

If I preach from my intellect I am only drawing converts to my way of thinking.. . . . How can I change that?



If I understand Pentecost none of the above will be my concern. Here:

Ezekiel 44:17-18 (KJV)
17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.

Linen garments here typifies the Baptism of Jesus Christ; Acts 2.4/



 2009/5/8 7:39





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