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 Rick Joiner Eighth church in Revelations

Discerning the Times, Part 29

Week 19, 2009

We are dealing with some of the most important questions being asked at this time: If the foundations of the nations are crumbling, is it not a waste of time to try to shore them up? Why should we not spend all of our efforts and time in building the kingdom and forget about the nations that are doomed anyway?

If we are in the time of Daniel 2, when the statue that represents all of man’s empires is crumbling, and the little stone that represents the kingdom is growing into a mountain and will keep growing until it covers the whole earth, why should we put any effort into shoring up earthly governments or institutions?

Certainly it is always right to “seek first the kingdom” (see Matthew 6:33). We should always be preparing the way for the kingdom first. We should also be rejoicing greatly as the signs of the times make clear that our salvation is drawing near. The prayer that the church has been praying for nearly two thousand years—that His kingdom would come and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven—is very close to being answered.

All of this is wonderful, but we also have a mandate to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. It is right and good for the powers and institutions built on human greed, arrogance, and other forms of the carnal nature of man to crumble, but it is not good when the vacuum is filled with even worse evil and lawlessness. The implication in Daniel 2, and other biblical prophecies, is that there will be a light for the nations to turn to when this happens and a kingdom government will take the place of those crumbling. Is the light and kingdom authority that is manifested in the church ready to be this? It seems that we are still very far from this. One strategy of the devil in dealing with prophecies that he knows he cannot change is to rush them ahead to bring great destruction.

These questions have many implications such as: Should we vote or not? Should we be engaged in politics or the business of the world at all? My position is that we should be engaged for the good of the nations that we have been placed in, without letting that devotion eclipse our greater devotion of seeking the kingdom first. The primary reasons for doing this are in the prophetic Books such as Revelation—that for at least some nations there will be a transformation into the kingdom of God or as it is declared in Revelation 11:15: “Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

This was a foundation for the doctrine of “manifest destiny,” which the founding articles of the government of the United States were based on—that there are nations that would be transformed into the kingdom, obviously not needing to be destroyed when the kingdom comes. Of course, many nations will be destroyed because they do not transition, as the biblical prophecies also make clear. What determines this is obviously the church in each nation—whether they are the salt and light that they are called to be.

Last year we had the greatest and most extended visitation from the Lord in the history of our ministry. In the middle of it, we were told that it was not the beginning of the coming revival, or great awakening, but just a birth pang, or spiritual contraction. Through several dreams, we were given a date in September, which we were told would be the birth day of this coming great move of God. On that date, we did not see much happen that would indicate such a birth, except for a dream given to one of our missionaries. We later discovered that the same revelation had been given to others in different forms.

In this dream, we were basically told that this was the birth date of the eighth church in the Book of Revelation. Of course, we know about the first seven churches spoken of in the first three chapters. However, there is an eighth church in Revelation, though it is not specifically addressed as such—it is the glorious bride later seen in this prophecy. The Lord said that He would not let His church end with the lukewarm Laodicean church, but that He would have His glorious bride.

When we are born, it takes time to mature into what we are to be. Likewise, there is a new church beginning to come forth in the earth that is very different than any that have been before, at least since the first century. Even though this church is still obscure, events started happening in the world that reflected that this great time was upon us—things such as the stock market crash and the beginning of an unprecedented worldwide economic shaking. This is help from the Lord to shake us free of all the things that were distractions to the Laodicean church.

Certainly, we are also told that there will be a time when the wealth of the nations will be coming to the faithful. However, they will not be coming to be consumed by our own desires, but to be used rightly in the service of the Lord, and then as a light to the nations. The great shaking that is coming upon the world is like when the Lord judged Egypt in order to set His people free. This is why the plagues in the Book of Revelation mirror the ones that came upon Egypt.

The result of this great shaking was that God’s people were set free from their bondage in Egypt, and they also departed with all of the treasures of Egypt. However, the people were not immediately taken to the nearest shopping mall to spend this wealth on their own desires; they used it to build the dwelling place of God in their midst. God is coming to the earth to dwell among men, and the greatest of all the endeavors of man is to build Him a dwelling place. This, too, must be our resolve for all of the resources we are trusted with.

 2009/5/5 22:47

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2673
Nottingham, England

 Re: Rick Joiner Eighth church in Revelations

Revelation 1v20, '...the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches'

The seven churches, stars, lampstand are mentioned in Revelation several times.

Since the 'eight church' is not found in scripture, we can relegate it to the class of nonsense.

 2009/5/6 6:18Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA


Through several dreams, we were given a date in September, which we were told would be the birth day of this coming great move of God. On that date, we did not see much happen ...

But that won't stop us.

Since the 'eight church' is not found in scripture, we can relegate it to the class of nonsense.


Mike Balog

 2009/5/6 9:07Profile

 Re: No

Extra biblical revelations are nothing new to Rick Joyner. He's involved with many who supported Todd Bentley's ministry but managed to stay on the periphery of the fray. He's good at biblical chop-logic and explaining away his, as well as others, errors. This is just more of the same.

 2009/5/6 10:19

Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365

 Re: Rick Joiner Eighth church in Revelations

An eighth church in the book of Revelation? Who forgot to put that in there? The One who spoke or the one spoken to?

When will it end?

Dear Lord, have mercy on us!


 2009/5/6 12:46Profile

Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640


The sad thing about chainsaw exegesis as this is that you miss the whole point of Rev. and the grace of God. The glorious Church in Rev IS the seven struggling churches at the beginning of the book.

SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/5/6 13:19Profile


Matthew 24:4-25 (New International Version)

4Jesus answered: "WATCH OUT THAT NO ONE DECEIVES you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and MANY FALSE PROPHETS will appear and DECEIVE MANY people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles TO DECEIVE EVEN THE ELECT-IF IT WERE POSIBLE. 25SEE I HAVE TOLD YOUAHEAD OF TIME.

 2009/5/6 14:06

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