| Re: |
Amen sister, a great reminder to us all. Men have their opinions, Scripture cuts to the heart of it......brother Frank
| 2009/4/21 14:39|
| Re: |
This thread [i]was[/i] a "rally" and we've failed the same "Bill of Rights" that were posted on page 8.
As soon as the opposing view point got to page 9 - already those of that conviction were told to disband - shut up - stop posting.
Sad - we failed our own demands for the rights of others for free expression and crys for peaceful-protests according to the same "right" that we are talking about on this thread -
[b][i]US Bill of Rights
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/i][/b]
Does this only apply to Congress and not to forum members?
We [b]are[/b] entitled to our own convictions without being told to shut-up because the opposing view-point people may vomit, are praying we'll be quiet and mocking their own Brethren over such a foolish topic. Now 'that' is nauseatingly contradictory to everything said on this thread.
Shows how far some folks will go against their own Brothers over what they say are our "Bill of RIGHTS".
My greatest fear is when they fully take those so-called "rights" away - how will we react then?
If this thread is any indication - we're in a world of mess.
| 2009/4/21 16:11|
| Re: speaking to God and man|
Chris, I really appreciate your desire that others would not judge you or others in their hearts, without knowing your heart in what you and they may do.
I was thinking about this and the story of Nehemiah came to mind. As I looked over the passages this stood out to me, how it says...
"...So I prayed to the God of heaven.
And I said unto the king..."
-from Nehemiah chapter 2 verses 4 and 5(KJV)
Was Nehemiah surprised when Artaxeres began to ask him why he looked so sad? I don't know. But he had been praying to God about His people and asked God for mercy in the sight of the king.
And then an oppportunity presented itself for him, and Nehemiah spoke, both to God, and to man.
I think that others have suggested something similar, that they may earnestly seek God for His help, but also seek justice and righteousness in the earth through lawful means.
I personally know very little about the situation in this thread, but I hope that we can all, with all sincerity, earnestly desire that whatever the other beleivers do here, that they may be able to do it with all goodness and godly sincerity, and with no offence before God or man. And that we should all pray unto the same.
Goodness and mercy be with you all.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2009/4/21 18:23||Profile|
West Monroe, LA
| Re: |
Dear Brother Frank, and all the rest,
I have to agree that this thread has run far more than its course... but I fear that the reason can be stated with scripture with the following two cited: Matthew 7:1-5
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brothers eye.
and Romans 14:1-12
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but nota to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another mans servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuadedb in his own mind. 6 He that regardethc the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lords. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brothers way.
We are called to liberty only not to use liberty as an occasion to stumble our brother's Paul tells us.
There has been the repeated use of a couple of scriptures but there has been the violation of the above cited scriptures in the use of them. Indeed the scriptures do say what they say!
"For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword
It is a two edged sword
it cuts both ways.
There is exegesis and eisegesis.
Perhaps there should be more exegesis than eisegesis in judgment of the brethren
It is not improving your standing at all among brothers to take a stand that refuses to see your brothers point when it is so very obvious, and just as equally scriptural. You have to omit the whole Old Testament and the prophets to make it unscriptural.
The history of the church, from the time of Justin Martyr,(and most of the ante-nicene fathers) through the Reformation and beyond is one of petitioning government, and often fighting government, (and it is simply an ignorant stand to say that they did not fight it in the issue of taxes, because the Church and State were the same) and in fact there would have been no reformation at all without men like Waldo, John Huss, Martin Luther, Zwingli (died with a sword in his hand), John Calvin, John Knox being involved to the degree that their conscience and the Word of God allowed in government, because the church [i]was[/i] the government for most of the period from the 4th through the 17th century.
Make your stand according to your own conscience but do not try to condemn your brothers and the whole of Christian history in the meantime!
| 2009/4/21 18:27||Profile|
| Re: |
"By much slothfulness the building decayeth; and through idleness of the hands the house droppeth through." Ecc10:18
I see in Scripture the counsel of stewardship. If we are given power to do good, and don't do it, is that not being a poor manager of what God has entrusted to us?
Were not the nations, including the United States, created by God for His glory? We are called to make Him known to all the nations. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations..." At the present, the USA has freedom to print and distribute Bibles, to teach others about Jesus, to openly speak truth. What a gift and a blessing!
Consider this passage from Acts 17:24-28: "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
I remember Keith Daniel saying that he concentrated his speaking time in the USA because it is a nation of senders. Can we not see the goodness and cherish the blessings of our land?
No doubt, the rafters are sagging, and the house could cave in any minute...who will deliver us out of this wreckage? God is able!!
At what level do we do nothing? I visited East Berlin before the wall came down; the distance of a few feet separated the captives from the free--unforgettable the difference. Do you know how many died trying to get from one side to the other?? For years after that, I prayed that God would bring the wall down. I didn't see how, but I knew He had the power to do it. And I had the burden to pray that it would be done. He made the way, as you all know--only God could do it--there is no other explanation, but the energy and zeal of human hands brought it down. I'll never forget that day.
I use this example to demonstrate that while I was praying (along with many others), God was calling others to action. It works like that, and God is glorified in all of it.
Let's stop devouring one another. I don't care if anyone considers me spiritually weak for loving my country.
| 2009/4/21 18:37||Profile|
| Re: |
BroClint and ChrisJD,
You must have been writing your posts at the same time as I. Both of you cited scripture passages that support my position on this subject. Thank you for those additions.
Our liberty is a treasure; may we use it, and all of our resources, for the glory of the Lord.
| 2009/4/21 18:52||Profile|
| Re: |
Brother Clint, I believe you are a reasonable man. I sincerely do.
When you bring up the Reformers [and I am a member of a Reformed Church] - please also remember that there are those of us also who have read and respect the Anabaptists and all that they went through - sometimes at the hands of the Reformed.
That is why this conversation can go in either direction - based upon which history or which convictions from either side that each member holds to.
There must be a way to end this thread in a Biblical fashion. I suppose that is why it's here - to test us - for when "all the world hates us" and our freedoms 'are' gone - how will we respond to it all then?
Us of the Anabaptist persuasion, that fellowship and love our Reformed Brethren will have some very big decisions to make one day, I believe.
I know that only Love for HIM first and for each other 2nd is the only way we'll get out of this earth in Victory.
Just some thoughts.
Bless you & your family
| 2009/4/21 19:09|