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InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2758
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

The Bible doesn't say a whole lot about marriage customs but it does say plenty about the nature of marriage being between one man and one woman for life. It also is clear that the Bible deals with marriage as a covenant and much is said about covenants and vows.

We know that the Bible condemns fornication and adultery as sin. So, how do we determine if a man and a woman are together in fornication/adultery or if they are together acceptably in covenant relationship? What is the valid criteria?

To simply say they are committed to one another does not seem to be valid criteria. It seems the only way to determine if the union is sin or not is to ask, "are they married?" And they only way to determine if they are truly married is to determine if they made vows?, were there witnesses? Is there a record?

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2009/4/12 0:22Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4514


 Re:

Hello DeepThinker...

Quote:
If two persons are living together and they are not married according the rituals of marriage and/or justice of the peace, and they have children, raise them, are you telling me that these kids are born out of wedlock?

Depends on how you view marriage. If a man and a woman (got to be specific these days) are married under the contract of common law, and they have babies and raise them, that is not out of wedlock. They are married, just not according to the standards of the world and the Church. But according to God they are. God honours that union as long as they stay together, just like those that have gone through the ceremony of vows of weights that no man keep anyway.

You might want to consider just what a "marriage" is in the first place. It isn't an agreement to live together. It is a binding covenant between a man and a woman in the sight of God. A "common law marriage" is a state recognized "marriage" typically without a ceremony and where no CONTRACT was ever established.

Of course, most states do not recognize a common law "marriage" as anything other than a couple who happened to live together for a long time. It is only a legal argument in 11 states (where it must now have a contract to be considered "valid") and does not legally exist in the other 39 states. In addition, I don't know if any sort of "common law marriage" even exists in Scripture.

By your definition (or, at least, what I [i]perceive[/i] to be your definition), a marriage could exist by a simple agreement. Please correct me if I am wrong. What do you think makes a marriage valid? I understand the history of marriage (studied this myself) and how "secret" marriages existed during Church history. Yet these were usually performed by a minister or at least with a covenant ceremony.
Quote:
I can see all you legalist digging out your Greek lexicons and Matthew Henry's.

Why would you say this, brother?


_________________
Christopher

 2009/4/12 1:40Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7480
Mississippi

 Re:

Deepthinker,

I have talked with many who were shacking and not one of them considers themselves to be married in any sense of the word. They simply do not want to make any commitment to another person and, yes, they know they are living in sin - and will even tell you so.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/4/12 19:19Profile
Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re: Out-of-wedlock births hit record high

Greg,

Thanks SO MUCH for posting this. Last Sunday, we were singing the chorus:

“Soften my heart, Lord,
Soften my heart.
From all indifference
Set me apart.
To feel Your compassion,
To weep with Your tears,
Come soften my heart, Oh Lord,
Soften my heart.”

The Spanish translation that we sing says: “Quebrantame” in the places that have “Soften my heart”. “Quebranteme” means “break me”. In the middle of the chorus, one of the Hispanic ladies started crying out to God: “Dejame llorar como Tu” (Let me weep as You). I was at the keyboard. I stopped playing, and we all knelt down and started crying out to God for Him to break our hearts and cause us to weep as He weeps.

After reading this post, I brought the alarming news to our prayer meeting Saturday night that 40% of all children are born to unwed mothers in the USA. We spent some time crying out to God to have mercy on this country . . . that one more time, true conviction of sin would grip the hearts of sinners, so that they could truly repent.

A couple of years ago, I was at a rummage sale, and bought a book copyrighted in 1894 by Edward T. Hiscox called The New Directory for Baptist Churches. There is a section in the book about prayer meetings. One part describes the different types of prayer meetings. Here is what was written about “The temperance prayer-meeting.”:

“The temperance prayer-meeting. This is not so generally observed as it should be. For if there be anything that appeals to Christian faith, and which should lead Christian people to appeal to God, the righteous judge, for help, it is this cause, --that the gigantic iniquity of the saloon, and the drink habit, which cause more suffering than war, pestilence and famine combined, may be checked and destroyed. With churches so apathetic, and good people on every hand so indifferent, the rum power rides riot over all that is fairest and best in society, destroying homes, impoverishing nations, and invading the sacred altars of our holy religion. Appeals need to be made to Him who is able to hear and save, for who else can avail?”

When I read that, my heart was smitten. In 1894, the Baptists, (and most Christians of that time) were so extremely bothered about such things that they called special prayer meetings to specifically appeal to God that such destructive sins would not spread. What smote my heart was that they spoke against the apathy and indifference of their churches with moral problems that were tiny in comparison to what we have today.

Am I SO hard hearted that the fact that 40% of children are born to unwed mothers cannot make me moan and groan and weep and howl before God? I would imagine that if in 1894, the newspapers had reported that the percentage of children born to unwed mothers had gone from 0.5% to 0.8%, the churches would have packed with saints crying out to God to save their fallen country.

“Soften my heart, Lord,
Soften my heart.
From all indifference
Set me apart.
To feel Your compassion,
To weep with Your tears,
Come soften my heart, Oh Lord,
Soften my heart.”


_________________
Michael Strickland

 2009/4/13 1:12Profile
fuehrerbe21
Member



Joined: 2008/10/21
Posts: 151
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
I can see all you legalist digging out your Greek lexicons and Matthew Henry's.




Quote:
Why would you say this, brother?



Agreed.


_________________
Ben Fuehrer

 2009/4/13 14:25Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Are we as a church ready to recieve this generation, that lives on the planet today.

Are we ready to help the single parent raise there children, are we ready to show compassion to them who have aborted a baby.

I ask should christians stand outside abortion clinics and call people murders when scripture states Matthew 5:21-22 that any who gets angry is in danger of the same judgement as a murderer.

Let me ask you any one of you reading this thread do you get angry. You'll answer yes if your honest. Then you are in as must danger of judgement as the murderer.

I have been a christian know for nearly 20 years and I thought I had it all together, but as God is going deeper in my life I find that sin still holds onto me.

I desire to be Holy, but find I am a sinner in heart. Lets look at anger.

Col 3:8-9 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds.

Anger is stated as being a characteristic of the old man. Know there is a big difference between supressing anger and being free from anger.

Know if get angry and supress it your are just as liable to be judged as someone who murders and in Gods eyes you are a murderer.

We should not dare look at single parents or somone who has had an abortion and think we are better than them.

We as Christian need to get on our knees and let God do the work of sanctification in our lives where he makes our hearts pure.

One of the main reason for the people of our nations being so involved in sin is because the church is powerless because christians today have a form of godliness but deny the power. 2Tim 3:8 What does this mean a form of Godliness by deny the power.

They deny the power that God cannot only forgive them of there sin but that God can remove the sinful nature from us so we can be rid of anger, malice etc, etc.

You can say I am forgiven but let me ask you can God remove the sinful nature from you or do you deny it. If you don't deny it then why has he not done it for you. Why are you still a sinner by nature.

Thats the problem Carnal Christianity is the scourge of this generation, not the murders or single parents. Once this is dealt with (Carnal Christianity) then the people of your nation will change.

God will hold us accountable for the sin of this generation if we live as weak carnal christians and deny the power that can completly purify our hearts and be rid of the sinful nature that lives in us even though we have been forgiven.

So please lets us look at our own lives before we look at others and let God do the work of purification in us. Then and only then will we be able to teach transgressors Gods ways and convert sinners unto him.
Pslam 51:10-13


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Colin Murray

 2009/4/13 18:08Profile
rreighe
Member



Joined: 2008/12/23
Posts: 124


 Re: Out-of-wedlock births hit record high

i am sorry for this message. i will leave it so that you know what i am sorry for. i will not post if i don't know what i am talking about. i shouldn't have done this. it was a mistake on my part. the next time i will post, i will at least read all of the other posts. because i didn't realize that this is just like a conversation in a circle of friends and i did what would be the equivelent of ignoring everyone then coming in at the last minuet and saying what i thought.

here is the origonal post.... if you think i should just get rid of it then please tell me. but i am truely sorry. i will admit that i don't know scripture at all enough to the level that i would hope to.


Quote:

[u][i][b]my old post[/b][/i][/u]


I will tell you right now i only read the first 2 or 3 replys.

I have been thinking alot about this post lately. and i think that by now we, most of us have gotten the point that the rates of society are changing rapidly. and i feel that unless it refers to anything directly concerning the build-up of, or the fuffilment of any prophecys, and the news is bad then why post it? we know the world is going down, that is obvious and we cannot deny it. i'm not saying to share a feel good only message; that would be absurd and stupid to do that. i am just saying if it really really isn't needed then why post it? we already know the imorality rates and the other prophecys concerning society are all ready at thier peaks so far (i know the peak isn't at its apex yet) so why stay on that? if we, any of us, were to keep on posting every bad news article about how soceity has gone to the slums we would be needing a whole new forum for that. i say that if it is really really needed then yes, post it, but if it is not then why?


_________________
allan

 2009/4/13 18:44Profile
Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re: why post it?

Quote:
unless it refers to anything directly concerning the build-up of, or the fuffilment of any prophecys, and the news is bad then why post it?



Hebrews 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:


WHEN WE PRAY, we move the hand that moves the world! When praying people hear bad news of moral decline, it provokes them to pray.

We will not know until we get to heaven, but THERE IS NOT TELLING how many poor enslaved souls caught up in the slavery of fornication (as our dear sister Mary Jane was) have been brought to the place of seeing the horribleness of their sin (it cost God His only Son) and TRULY repenting. How many captive souls were set free because Greg cared enough to post the article on a forum that praying Christians look at.

NEVER underestimate the power of praying Christians!!!! NEVER!!!!

2 Corinthians 10:4  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Strong holds that keep fornicators enslaved are TORN DOWN when the saints use their weapons!!!

EVERY ONE of our prayers are so important to God that he stores them in special vials near His throne: Rev 5:8 Rev 8:3-4

Jude 1:23  And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Let's pull as many as we can out of the fires of lust by mountain moving prayer!!!

We may not get any statistical reports from the news media about the conviction and conversion of fornicators, but on awards day in heaven, we will find out how many souls were rescued by our prayers!

Mark 11:23  For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.


_________________
Michael Strickland

 2009/4/13 19:44Profile









 Re:

Thank you for your posts Lordoitagain.

Before I read your second post, I felt to open up to Jude and read that whole chapter. Glad I did.
Many of us wish we grew up in a two parent home and I would love to tell these single folks how difficult it is to live without a Dad or a Mom. If I could just tell them my own story - I think it would make them think twice and show them what their children will be more inclined to do as adults themselves, because of what they've seen their parents do - and then their children's children - unless someone reaches out to them and breaks this generational tendency.
There are many good books out there about the affects on children who grow up without one or the other parent and how many children don't feel deserving enough to have a "Family name".

Amen - cry out for the children!

 2009/4/13 21:58
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7480
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
If I could just tell them my own story



Go ahead and tell us! You never know who might benefit.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/4/13 23:16Profile





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