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JaySaved wrote:
So is it possible that Revelation 12 (which a picture of the male-child born and Satan being cast out of heaven) is giving a symbolic description of past events?

Both - unequivically.

The woman is Israel - the man-child is Jesus, from the time that the three wise men announced His Coming, He was wanted dead and the end of Chpt 12 is "us".

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have [b]the testimony of Jesus Christ.[/b]

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have [b]the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. [/b]

GOD forgive those who see the tribulation period as just for THE JEWS.

 2009/4/24 19:22

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Revelation 12:13
Verse 13. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth. That is, when Satan saw that he was doomed to discomfiture and overthrow, as if he had been cast out of heaven; when he saw that his efforts must be confined to the earth, and that only for a limited time, he "persecuted the woman," and was more violently enraged against the church on earth.
He persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Cmt. on Re 12:5. The child is represented as safe; that is, the ultimate progress and extension of the church was certain, But Satan was permitted still to wage a warfare against the church-- represented here by his wrath against the woman, and by her being constrained to flee into the wilderness. It is unnecessary to say that, after the Pagan persecutions ceased, and Christianity was firmly established in the empire; after Satan saw that all hope of destroying the church in that manner was at an end, his enmity was vented in another form--in the rise of the Papacy, and in the persecutions under that--in opposition to spiritual religion no less determined and deadly than that which had been waged by Paganism.

William Burkitt's Expository Notes
Revelation 12:13
Observe here, The incessant and restless malice of Satan and his instruments against the church; neither his fore-mentioned disappointment, his present foil and downfall, nor his fear of future destruction, could move him to desist: but, having attempted to destroy the church with the fire of persecution before, he endeavours to drown it with a flood of errors now. Diabolus mutat consilium, non deponit malitiam; the devil sometimes changes his methods in doing mischief, but never lays down his malice: he persecutes the woman, the church of Christ, after another manner, namely, by a flood of errors and heresies.
Observe, 2. The care that God took for his church's preservation from this fatal mischief also: to the woman were given the wings of a great eagle, for flight into the wilderness; that is, all means and ways of evasion, which God out of his care for his church provides for her safety and protection in the time of trouble: the church's flight in time of persecution is by no means to be censured or condemned, especially when God by his providence provides her wings, that is, gives her opportunity so to do.

Observe, 3. The place she flies into for safety, namely the wilderness, called her place, because prepared by God for her safety; here she is nourished, that is, hath spiritual food provided for her by God, and a number of faithful ministers are qualified for the feeding of her; for a time, and times, and half a time, that is, for a certain time determined by God, but altogether unknown to us; thus when the church meets with new distresses, God provides for her new deliverances.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Revelation 12:5
Verse 5. And she brought forth a man child. Representing, according to the view above taken, the church in its increase and prosperity--as if a child were born that was to rule over all nations. Cmt. on Re 12:2.
Who was to rule all nations. That is, according to this view, the church thus represented was destined to reign in all the earth, or all the earth was to become subject to its laws. Compare Cmt. on Da 7:13.

With a rod of iron. The language here used is derived from Ps 2:9: "Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron." The form of the expression here used "who was to rule"--oV mellei poimainein is derived from the Septuagint translation of the Psalm--poimaineiV-- "thou shalt rule them;" to wit, as a shepherd does his flock. The reference is to such control as a shepherd employs in relation to his flock--protecting, guarding, and defending them, with the idea that the flock is under his care; and, on the supposition that this refers to the church, it means that it would yet have the ascendency or the dominion over the earth. The meaning in the phrase, "with a rod of iron," is, that the dominion would be strong or irresistible--as an iron sceptre is one that cannot be broken or resisted. The thoughts here expressed, therefore, are

(a) that the church would become universal--or that the principles of truth and righteousness would prevail everywhere on the earth;

(b) that the ascendency of religion over the understandings and consciences of men would be irresistible--as firm as a government administered under a sceptre of iron; yet

(c) that it would be rather of a character of protection than of force or violence, like the sway which a shepherd wields over his flock. I understand the "man child" here, therefore, to refer to the church in its increase under the Messiah, and the idea to be, that church was, at the time referred to, about to be enlarged, and that, though its increase was opposed, yet it was destined ultimately to assert a mild sway over all the world. The time here referred to would seem to be some period in the early history of the church when religion was likely to be rapidly propagated, and when it was opposed and retarded by violent persecution--perhaps the last of the persecutions under the Pagan Roman empire.

And her child was caught up unto God. This is evidently a symbolical representation. Some event was to occur, or some Divine interposition was to take place, as if the child thus born were caught up from the earth to save it from death, and was rendered secure by being in the presence of God, and near his throne. It cannot be supposed that anything like this would literally occur. Any Divine interposition to protect the church in its increase, or to save it from being destroyed by the dragon--the fierce Pagan power--would be properly represented by this. Why may we not suppose the reference to be to the time of Constantine, when the church came under his protection; when it was effectually and finally saved from Pagan persecution; when it was rendered safe from the enemy that waited to destroy it? On the supposition that this refers to an increasing but endangered church, in whose defence a civil power was raised up, exalting Christianity to the throne, and protecting it from danger, this would be well represented by the child caught up to heaven. This view may derive confirmation from some well-known facts in history. The old Pagan power was concentrated in Maximin, who was emperor from the Nile to the Bosphorus, and who raged against the gospel and the church "with Satanic enmity." "Infuriate at the now imminent prospect of the Christian body attaining establishment in the empire, Maximin renewed the persecution against Christians within the limits of his own dominion; prohibiting their assemblies, and degrading and even killing their bishops." Compare Gibbon, i. 325, 326. The last struggle of Pagan Rome to destroy the church by persecution, before the triumph of Constantine, and the public establishment of the Christian religion, might be well represented by the attempt of the dragon to destroy the child; and the safety of the church, and its complete deliverance from Pagan persecution, by the symbol of a child caught up to heaven, and placed near the throne of God. The persecution under Maximin was the last struggle of Paganism to retain the supremacy, and to crash Christianity in the empire. "Before the decisive battle," says Milner, "Maximin vowed to Jupiter that, if victorious, he would abolish the Christian name. The contest between Jehovah and Jupiter was now at its height, and drawing to a crisis:" The result was the defeat and death of Maximin, and the termination of the efforts of Paganism to destroy Christianity by force. Respecting this event, Mr. Gibbon remarks, "The defeat and death of Maximin soon delivered the church from the last and most implacable of her enemies," i. 326. Christianity was, after that, rendered safe from Pagan persecution. Mr. Gibbon says, "The gratitude of the church has exalted the virtues of the generous patron who seated Christianity on the throne of the Roman world." If, however, it should be regarded as a forced and fanciful interpretation to suppose that the passage before us refers to this specific event, yet the general circumstances of the times would furnish a fulfilment of what is here said.

(a) The church would be well represented by the beautiful woman.

(b) The prospect of its increase and universal dominion would be well represented by the birth of the child.

(c) The furious opposing Pagan power would be well represented by the dragon in its attempts to destroy the child.

(d) The safety of the church would be well represented by the symbol of the child caught up to God, and placed near his throne.

{a} "she" Isa 7:14
{b} "who" Ps 2:9

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Revelation 12:5

And she brought forth a man child,… Not Christ, literally and personally considered, or Christ in his human nature, as made of a woman, and born of a virgin, which was a fact that had been years ago; but Christ mystically, or Christ in his members, who are called by his name, because he is formed in them, and they are the seed of the woman, the church; and many of these were brought forth to Christ by the church in the primitive times, who were a manly birth, hale, strong, and robust Christians; or rather this manly birth may design a more glorious appearing and breaking forth of the kingdom of Christ in the Roman empire; for though Christ came as a King, yet his kingdom was not with observation in the days of his flesh; and though, upon his ascension to heaven, he was made and declared Lord and Christ, and had a kingdom and interest in the world, and even in the Roman empire, during the first three centuries, yet this was attended with the cross and persecution; but now, towards the close of that period, Constantine, a Christian emperor, was born, under whose influence and encouragement the Gospel was spread, and the kingdom of Christ set up and established in the empire; and this seems to be the thing intended here, he being of a generous, heroic, and manly disposition:

who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; this has a manifest reference to Ps 2:9; which psalm, and the passage referred to in it, evidently belong to Christ; and as this is represented as something future, what should be hereafter, and not what would immediately take place, it may regard the kingdom of Christ in the last times, of which the present breaking forth of it in Constantine's time was an emblem and pledge; and may denote the universality of it, it reaching to all the kingdoms of the world, and the manner which Christ will rule, especially over his enemies, antichrist and his followers, whom he will destroy with the breath of his mouth, and break in pieces with his rod of iron, and order all that would not have him to reign over them slain before him; and as this may be applied to Christ mystical, the seed of the church, and members of Christ, as it is in Re 2:26; it may relate to their reign with Christ on earth, when they shall sit on thrones, and judge the world, when the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to there; but since this is expressly said of the man child in the text, it may be expressive even of the temporal government of Constantine, who was an heroic and victorious prince, and extended his dominions to the several parts of the world; as far as Britain to the west, and all Scythia to the north, Ethiopia to the south, and the remote parts of India to the east, even to the ultimate parts of the whole world, as Eusebius1 affirms, making his kingdom to be three times larger than that of Alexander the great: and more especially it may describe the kingdom of Christ in his times; which was spread throughout all the nations of the empire; when Paganism was demolished, both in the continent and in the isles of the sea, and the strong holds Satan were pulled down, not by carnal, but spiritual weapons; when multitudes of souls were converted by the word, the rod of Christ's strength, and when the saints were guided, directed, fed, and comforted by it; for the allusion seems to be to the shepherd's rod, with which he leads and feeds his sheep; the same word signifies both to rule and feed:

and her child caught up unto God, and to his throne; which is to be understood not of Christ's ascent to heaven in human nature, when he was set down on the same throne with his Father; nor of Christ mystical, or of the saints being caught up into the air, to meet the Lord and be for ever with him, and sit down with him on the same throne; but rather of some glorious advance of the church and kingdom of Christ on earth; for as "to fall from heaven" is expressive of debasement and meanness, and of a low estate that a person is brought into, Isa 14:12; so an ascending up to heaven, as the two witnesses in the preceding chapter are said to do, denotes exaltation, or a rise to some more glorious state and condition, which was the case of the church in Constantine's time: and this may also take in the accession of Constantine himself to the imperial throne, which was the throne of God; for king's have their sceptres, thrones, and kingdoms from him, they his viceregents, and in some measure represent and are therefore called gods, and the children of the most high; yea, since Constantine, as advanced to the empire, was such an instrument in Christ's hand for the setting up and establishing his kingdom in it, Christ himself may be here represented as reigning over the Roman empire, as a presage and prelude of his reigning over all the earth another day.

1. De Vita Constantini, l. 1. c. 8.

The Woman is the Church, the man child is her offspring the Body of Christ as individual members in One Spirit, which we have all been made to drink into. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Again the woman the Church, her man child, the offspring of God by Jesus Christ as son's of God.

In Christ: Phillip


 2009/4/28 1:48Profile


Brother, this has been debated possibly since immediately after this book was distributed.

There is no consensus on Chpt 12, most especially from those in e-sword and Reformed theology types that have placed-down Israel.

Just for one of the 'commentators' from the opposing viewpoint on Chpt 12, I agree with Zac Poonen on this --

- [i]"In Rev. 12, we read of Satan being enraged with certain people. There we read of him first trying to devour the Man-child (Jesus Christ) that the woman (Israel) had brought forth into the world. Satan could not succeed there, and the Man-child grew up, completed His ministry and ascended up to the throne of God (Rev. 12:4,5). Satan's fury is now directed against the younger brothers of this Man-child. These are described as those "who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" (Rev. 12:17 b). These are the disciples of Jesus whose life is characterised by total obedience to the commandments of God and who boldly hold fast to the testimony of Jesus. They open their mouths, speaking about everything that Jesus Himself testified to - for this is "the testimony of Jesus". There are very few like these on earth today, for there are very few churches in the world now preaching total obedience to God's commandments."[/i]

When is the Church ever referred to as a "male"?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with [b]the remnant of her seed[/b], which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who is her "seed" and who are the remnant of That Seed?

Did not The Seed - The Messiah come out of Israel [Rom 11:13-27]?

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Heb 2:16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.

I just truly fear that we may be taking Scripture about HIM as for ourselves, when Rev 12:17 is the Blessing that we have by His incarnation / birth and His being Lifted up to His Throne.

 2009/4/28 12:58


I should have said - I love e-sword and all the other Commentaries in book form that we have, but when it comes to The Revelation, I've found most of these old-time favorites to be almost useless. [Dan 12:9]

I don't want to put down any of these commentators of old but if you read Rev 12, you see there are 'three' different people mentioned - the woman - the manchild - and the remnant of that seed or the remnant of that manchild -------- these commentators have All three as the Church?
We'd need to understand their position on eschatology and Israel to understand why.

GOD Bless.

 2009/4/28 13:59

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


Good thoughts J.I.G, i have noticed the same, maybe because in the days of old israel being a nation was very far away, but we can see more then they could, and we see it happening before our eyes. Zac Poonens book on revelation is outstanding i think, a must read for all who are interested in the end times, and we all should be, not for the sake of knowing just for knowing, but for being one of these that keep all Gods commandments.

here is one of the best commentaries i read on revelation, verse by verse study.

[url=]the final triumph by Zac Poonen[/url]


 2009/4/28 14:22Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


excerpt from the above named book by brother Poonen:


V.1,2: And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. And she was with child; and she cried out, being in labour and in pain to give birth.”

Whom does this woman symbolise?

The best way to interpret Scripture is by comparing Scripture with Scripture. There is only one place in the entire Bible where “the sun, moon and 12 stars” are used to describe a community of people - and that is in Genesis 37:9, where Joseph related his dream to his brothers saying, “The sun and the moon and eleven stars bowed down to me”. His father understood what it meant and rebuked him saying, “Shall I and your mother, and your eleven brothers actually come to bow ourselves before you to the ground?” But that was what finally happened in Egypt. So the Bible interprets the sun, moon and 12 stars as a picture of Jacob’s family members. So the woman in Rev.12 is actually a symbol of the nation of Israel that came from that family.

The woman was in labour. In Micah 5:2-4,, we read, “Bethlehem….. from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel....He will give them up until the time when she who is in labour has borne a child. Then the remainder of His brethren (the Gentiles who would be converted) will return to the sons of Israel. And He will arise and shepherd His flock in the strength of the Lord”. There we see the woman Israel being in labour and bringing forth Jesus Christ. (See also Romans 9:4,5).

V.3: And another sign appeared in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

This dragon is Satan (v.9). We will study the seven heads and ten horns in detail when we study Chapter 13. But let me just say here that they symbolise a world government and this signifies Satan’s control of the governments of the world. We read in Dan. 10. of an evil spirit who was in control of the nation of Persia. And we read in Eph. 6:12. that we wrestle with the world’s rulers who sit in the heavenly places. The real world-rulers are not in the capital cities of the world. Those leaders are only the puppets who are pulled by the strings operated by spirit-forces in the heavenlies. This is why the church is told to pray for those who are in authority, so that the activities of those evil spirits are bound. Thus the church has authority to influence the government leaders of every country.

The dragon is red - the colour of blood and murder. Jesus said in Jn.8:44. that the devil was a murderer. He also said that Satan comes to steal, to kill and to destroy. That is why he is a red dragon.

When God created him, he was not like this. He was the most beautiful of all of God’s creation. We read in Ezek.28:13 that he was an anointed cherub who once ruled over the garden of God. But when pride and a rebellious attitude came into his heart, he became a horrible dragon.

Even one who is as pure as an angel can become like a dragon if he allows pride to enter his heart. Or let a little of the spirit of rebellion against authority come into your heart - whether that authority be your parents or your boss in the office or your elder in the church - and you will soon become like a dragon. Satan is forever seeking to make people just like himself, just as the Holy Spirit seeks to make people like Jesus! Satan succeeds in making people like himself whenever he is able to infect them with his spirit of pride or rebellion.

V.4: And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

Since the angels are called stars in Job 38:7 and in Rev.9:1,2, this probably indicates that one third of the angelic host joined Satan in his rebellion. In Isa. 9:15 a deceiving prophet is called “a tail”. So the dragon’s tail possibly speaks of the deception of Lucifer with which he led astray millions of God’s angels who then became demons.

The dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. This has had a partial fulfilment throughout the history of Israel. In Exod. 1:16, we read that Pharaoh gave an order to the Israeli midwives that all newborn males should be killed as soon as they are born. Satan has always been against the Jewish people, because the Messiah was to come through them. In Esther, we read of another Satan-inspired man Haman, who tried to destroy the entire Jewish people. But Haman did not succeed. So we see many partial fulfilments of this picture of the dragon waiting to devour the man-child. But Satan has never succeeded in destroying the Jewish people - whether through Pharaoh, or Haman, or Hitler, or through any other world-leader.

Satan knew that the Messiah would be born, because of what God had said in Eden that “the seed of the woman, will bruise the head of the serpent”. So he waited to destroy the man-child. When Jesus was born, Satan instigated Herod to send his soldiers to Bethlehem to kill all the male Jewish children under the age of two. But the baby Jesus escaped.

V.5: She gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

Jesus is the man-child who will “rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev.19:15). He is called here `a son’ and `a child’, reminding us of Isa. 9:6 where it says, “A Child will be born to us and a Son will be given to us”.

The word “rule” is translated as “shepherd” in the margin. Jesus is not going to rule the world like earthly rulers rule today. He is going to shepherd the nations. True rulership in God’s eyes is that which is done in the spirit of a shepherd who leads his sheep from the front by example. All God-appointed leaders can be identified by this mark. They will be shepherds, not bosses.

The child is caught up to GOD’S throne. This also proves that the child is Jesus Christ. In Rev. 3:21, we read that the overcomer sits with Jesus on Jesus’ throne and not on the throne of God the Father. Only Jesus Himself sits with the Father on His throne.

What is literally true of Israel is symbolically true of the church. So we could look at the woman also as a picture of the church to learn some spiritual truths from here. Gal.4:26 says, “The Jerusalem above is free and she is our mother”. Paul says in Gal. 4:19: “My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you”. God is looking for those who have a spirit of travail to bring forth the nature of Christ in others.

V.6: And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

This will take place during the reign of the Antichrist, after he breaks his covenant with the Jews. That will be a time of tremendous persecution. But at that time the true “Israel” will be protected and nourished by God in the wilderness for a period of 1260 days.

As it says in Jer. 30:3-7, “I heard the sound of terror.....Why do I see every man with his hands on his loins as a woman in childbirth?....Alas! for that day is great. There is none like it. It is the time of Jacob’s distress. But he will be saved from it”.

V.7: And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war.

We read in Daniel 12:1: “Now at that time Michael the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people (Israel) will arise And there will be a time of distress (the great tribulation) such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time, your people, everyone who is found written in the book will be rescued”.

And we read further, “And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time (3½ years); and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all the events will be completed” (Dan. 12:7).

V.8,9: And they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven, and the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old, who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

This will take place during the final 3½ -year period just before Jesus establishes His kingdom on the earth. Satan will be thrown down to the earth then. At present, Satan is in the heavenly places. Many think that Satan is in hell. But he is not there. He will be cast in the lake of fire one day. But right now, he is in the heavenly places. Today, we have to wrestle with the “evil forces of darkness in the heavenly places” (as we read in Eph. 6:12).

The Bible speaks of three heavens. The first heaven is the visible heaven of the universe and space (Psa.8:3). The third heaven, where the apostle Paul was caught up, is also called Paradise - where God’s throne is (2 Cor.12:2,4). Between the first and the third heavens must be “the second heaven”.

When we pray, we have to penetrate through this second heaven to get to the third heaven. The best way to penetrate is by praising God. The one thing that the devil cannot stand is praise to God! So, if you find it difficult to pray, stop praying, and start praising God. Get connected to the third heaven and then start praying.

The dragon and his angels were thrown down out of heaven. Jesus once said, “I beheld Satan fall from heaven like a lightning” (Lk. 10:18). Jesus saw Satan’s fall when he fell initially and became Satan. But He also foresaw Satan being cast down to earth, being locked up in the bottomless pit, and finally being cast into the lake of fire. Then Jesus told His disciples, “I give you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of Satan. Nothing shall injure you”.

When we have seen what Jesus saw, we will no longer be afraid of Satan. He is a defeated enemy, for he was defeated on the cross by our Lord. The prince of the world has been judged. It is ridiculous for a believer now to be afraid of Satan. There is no need to be afraid. Ask God to open your eyes to see the fall of Satan. Satan hates the book of Revelation because it describes his final doom.

Michael and his angels are the ones who cast Satan out. There was a time long ago when Satan, as Lucifer, was above Michael. But he lifted himself up, and he was cast down. Finally Michael is given the job of clearing the second heaven of Satan and his hosts.

Satan is called here the serpent of old and the devil. The word ‘devil’ in Greek is ‘diabolos’ from which we get the English word ‘diabolical’. But the word ‘diabolos’ in Greek actually means ‘a slanderer’ or ‘a backbiter’, and is used in 1 Tim. 3:11, where it says, “Women must not be diabolos”. What that means is that women must not be little devils, who slander others, speaking evil about them behind their backs. Of course, men should not be slanderers either. It says in 2 Tim. 3:2,3, that, “in the last days, difficult times will come, for men...will be little devils (diabolos).” It says further in Tit. 2:3, “Older women should not be diabolos.” So both men and women are warned against becoming “devils” who slander others! A slanderer gets Satan’s name, just as a Christian gets Christ’s name.

Another name for the devil is Satan which means ‘the adversary,’ the resister of God, resister of the truth, resister of God’s people.

He is also called the Deceiver, the deceiver of the whole world.

Satan will be on earth for 1260 days. He is not here yet. If things are already so bad, you can imagine what it is going to be like when Satan is thrown down to earth with his angels. It says here that he will have great wrath at that time.

V.10: And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, ‘Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser (slanderer) of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.’

Here Satan is called ‘the accuser of our brethren’. If anyone slanders his brothers or sisters, let him realise that he is in fellowship with Satan, the chief accuser of the brethren. Satan accuses us before God day and night saying, “See how Your child is behaving there! See how Your child is talking there!” The Devil watches our private life carefully and thereby gets plenty of material to accuse us before God.

Satan accused Job before God saying that Job served God only because God had blessed him. Satan will accuse believers like that today as well. Since God is righteous, He will not say that Satan is wrong, if He sees that you are indeed serving God with wrong motives. Jesus Christ is a “righteous Advocate” (1 Jn.2:1). He cannot cover up for us if we are wrong. That is why we must always be honest with God in judging and cleansing ourselves, because then the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us from all sin and there will be no more ground for Satan to accuse us before God.

V.11: And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and because they did not love their life even to death.

These are disciples of Jesus who overcame Satan. They used three weapons.

(1) The blood of Jesus Christ that cleansed them because they were walking in the light of God.

(2) The word of their testimony. They told Satan with their mouths that they had been forgiven and cleansed and that he no longer had any claim on them.

(3) They did not love their lives even unto death. They took up the cross and died to Self daily.

It was on the cross of Calvary that Jesus defeated Satan, and it is when we take our place as crucified with Christ, and die to ourselves every day, that we too can overcome Satan.

Why do we speak about taking up the cross daily? Because we want to overcome Satan daily. The day we are unwilling to die to ourselves, Satan will overcome us.

V.12: For this reason, rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea; because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.

There are three places in the New Testament, where it speaks about heaven rejoicing.

(1) Lk. 15:7: There is joy in heaven over a sinner who repents.

(2) Rev. 12:12: There is joy in heaven when a believer overcomes.

(3) Rev. 19:7: There is joy in heaven at the marriage of the Lamb, because the bride has made herself ready.

These three occasions are actually three stages of our Christian life.

Stage 1: When we repent of our sins.

Stage 2: When we overcome Satan in our personal lives.

Stage 3: When we have made ourselves ready as a bride for the marriage of the Lamb.

Every one of us can be a source of joy to the heavenly hosts, if we are willing to go through these three stages.

Jesus has already overcome Satan. Now He gives us the privilege of executing that victory which He has already won, as it says in Rom. 16:20: “The God of peace shall crush Satan under your feet shortly”.

Satan tried to devour Christ when He was born (Rev. 12:4), but he did not succeed. In heaven he fought with Michael and his angels, but he got thrown out (v.7-9). Now he fights with us. Are we going to be defeated? No! That which Jesus accomplished on the cross, we are to execute today so that the God of peace is able to crush Satan through us in our daily life, and finally completely.

The devil is a student of prophecy and knows that he will have only 3½ years once he comes down to earth. So his wrath will be great. And it is going to be a terrible time on the earth.

V.13: And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

Immediately after Satan comes to earth, he will start persecuting the nation of Israel that gave birth to Jesus Christ.

V.14-16: And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.

The wings of an eagle may refer to the nation of Israel being airlifted to safety into the wilderness where God has prepared a place to protect them. The river flowing out of the serpent’s mouth refers to a flood of persecution that will seek to sweep Israel away. But there will be even more people then, than in the Second World War, to help the Jews, so that they are not swept away from the earth.

V.17: And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The dragon was enraged with Israel because he could not harm her. So he goes out to make war with “the rest of her offspring”. That refers to wholehearted disciples of Jesus - those who obey God and are witnesses for Jesus. They are called “the woman’s offspring” because the church was born through the witness of the twelve apostles, who were all Israelites.

This proves that there will be Christians on earth at this time, who obey God and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ. They will overcome Satan and be a powerful testimony for the Lord on earth. God is now preparing His people for that day. So let us be faithful in these days to overcome Satan completely so that he is crushed under our feet.

Jer. 12:5 says that the Lord teaches us now to run with men so that one day we can run with horses. He trains us in a time of peace so that when “the flood of Jordan” comes, we will be able to stand. We cannot be prepared overnight. It takes time. So, if we take every opportunity that comes our way now, to humble ourselves and to die to Self now, then when the flood comes (the great tribulation) we will be able to stand true to the Lord and be a testimony for Him on the earth.


 2009/4/28 14:24Profile

Joined: 2009/4/29
Posts: 3

 Re: Amillennialism

Amillennialism (Latin: a- "against" + millennialism) is a view in Christian end-times theology named for its rejection of the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year long, physical reign on the earth. This is in opposition to premillennial and some postmillennial views of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

In contrast, the amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age, (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 — see Preterism). Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish permanent physical reign.

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 2009/4/29 2:20Profile


Who has decided to spiritualize these Scriptures?

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 2009/4/29 13:18

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