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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Amillennialism

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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Phillip,


Quote:
We have Christ, Put Him on and the devil must flee.




I think that is getting closer to the exhortation of scripture(Eph 6:11-13, James 4:7).



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/15 21:17Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Could an AM's explain to me what it means for Satan to be "loosed from his prison and go out to deceive the nations" again- I am asking what is the symbollic AM interpretation of ".... after that he must be loosed a little season"-what does this mean according to AM's?



 2009/4/16 14:39Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

ChrisJD -

Quote:
Satan has never stopped deceiving



True. Satan has never stopped deceiving, but he cannot deceive the nations as he has been able to previously.

KingJimmy -
Quote:
As somebody who used to lean towards Amillennialism, I can sympathize with this position. But I seriously must ask, where in all of the entirety of Scripture is Satan ever presented as presently bound?



In Matthew 12:29 Jesus clearly speaks of Satan has having been bound. The casting out of demons represents that Jesus has first bound the strongman.

I believe we may be talking past one another because we have slightly different understandings of the word Bind.

The binding of Satan does not mean that Satan is dead and powerless, but that Satan is powerless to stop the spread of the Gospel into the nations.

Satan is still the god of this age who blinds the minds of those who do not believe, but (and this is the greatest part) Satan's blinding is powerless before Christ, Satan's deception crumbles before the inward-working of the Spirit, and Satan is a skinned-cat running for his life before the advance of the gospel.

 2009/4/16 21:19Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

True. Satan has never stopped deceiving, but he cannot deceive the nations as he has been able to previously.



World War 1 and World War 2 suggests to me that he has deceived entire nations on a massive and unprecedented scale, and is ever increasing in his ability to do so. The spirit of anti-Christ has been ever at work, and will one day find its fullest expression in the Man of Sin.

I think I am seeking a more tangible definitive answer of how Satan is presently bound. So far as I can tell, he's up to the same things he has been up to since the creation of the world. The way I understand Revelation 20, there comes a span of time for 1,000 years (which I concede, may be symbolic in actual length, but a long span of time nonetheless), in which Satan will no longer deceive anybody in any way shape or form for the duration of the millennial reign of Christ, until he is unbound to deceive the nations one more time.

Also, what does it mean for Satan to be unbound if he is presently bound?

There seems to be some vagueness to what a bound/unbound Satan looks like.


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Jimmy H

 2009/4/16 22:42Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
World War 1 and World War 2 suggests to me that he has deceived entire nations on a massive and unprecedented scale, and is ever increasing in his ability to do so. The spirit of anti-Christ has been ever at work, and will one day find its fullest expression in the Man of Sin.



The extent to which Satan can deceive the nations is not something I can give an answer to. All I can say is that according to Matthew 12:29 Jesus is telling us that with His coming and work He has "bound" Satan.

I assume you agree with Jesus' statement that He has bound Satan.

The question then becomes: Is there another 'Millennial' binding? One can argue that there will be, but I argue that one doesn't have to.

When Jesus came, lived, and died; He set the captives free (Luke 4:18). Yes, Satan can still possess people in the gospels, but Jesus sets them free. Yes, nations can rise up in warfare, but Christ redeems people. A great real-life example of this is in Luke 13:16, where we see a woman bound by Satan who has been loosed. Satan's work cannot stand before Christ.

Revelation 20 is simply symbolic language to describe that Jesus has ushered in a period of time in which the gospel is to be carried out into all the world. The gospel can go into all the world because Satan is bound (i.e., powerless to stop it.)

Quote:
Also, what does it mean for Satan to be unbound if he is presently bound?



That there is coming a day (maybe we are already in it) when Satan will be able to rise up against the spread of the gospel and for a season prevail against it. Why is this so? I have no idea, but that is what the Bible says.

Regardless of your millennial stand, you have to believe that things will get really bad before the end, then Christ will return.

 2009/4/18 12:31Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Jaysaved,

How can Jesus be telling us that in in Matt 12:29, when we read in Luke the remainder of the story in a different Gospel:

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out [b]devils[/b], no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. 21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils. 23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. 24 When the [b]unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will RETURN unto my house whence I came out[/b]. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 [b]Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; AND THEY ENTER IN, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first[/b].

How can Rev 20 be symbolic to a time that Jesus has ushered in, when Rev 20 was written AFTER the Gospels were completed-and not to mention the Bible clearly says an angel is the one that binds Satan, it doesn't say the Gospel. If the 1000 years are symbollic, and the pit is symbolic, then what is the angel symbolic of?

Jesus is clearly talking about unclean spirits being stronger then mortal man-until the man gains some strength, however, the evil needs to go ant get 7 other spirits wickeder than himself so they can BIND or spoil the man again-this is clear by Jesus's statement "...and the the last state of that man is worse than the first"-because in the beginning the man only had one unclean spirit in him who was cast out, but now he has 8 unclean spirits returning to him .

Jesus could not have been talking about him and Satan because there are no 7 other spirits more wicked than the Devil-he is the Chief Evil.

John was writing about things that had NOT happened yet:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants [b]things which must shortly come to pass[/b]; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


 2009/4/18 16:35Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
John was writing about things that had NOT happened yet:



Then how do you interpret Revelation 12:1-17? Are these events not speaking of Christ's birth, life and resurrection? Are they not talking about the fall of Satan as Jesus said in Luke 10:18?

Clearly Revelation 12 must be taken symbolically because if you say that Christ is the "male child" then you are saying that He wasn't born before Revelation 12 and not before John wrote the book.

Also, angel can be rendered messenger, which considering the symbolic nature of the book it is perfectly legitimate to fit "gospel" or "Christ" as the interpretation.

Blessings.

 2009/4/18 19:39Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:
Quote:
John was writing about things that had NOT happened yet:



Then how do you interpret Revelation 12:1-17? Are these events not speaking of Christ's birth, life and resurrection? Are they not talking about the fall of Satan as Jesus said in Luke 10:18?

Clearly Revelation 12 must be taken symbolically because if you say that Christ is the "male child" then you are saying that He wasn't born before Revelation 12 and not before John wrote the book.

Also, angel can be rendered messenger, which considering the symbolic nature of the book it is perfectly legitimate to fit "gospel" or "Christ" as the interpretation.

Blessings.



Why would John be seeing the birth of Christ-when he already wrote about the birth of Christ in the Gospel of John? Also pertaining to Rev 12:1-17-when Jesus was born, did a picture or image of Mary appear in the sky? When Jesus was born, did scripture ever say that Mary had a crown of 12 stars around her head? What Gospel is that in?-because I have never seen that. Also, are you implying that Satan was kicked out of heaven AFTER the birth of Jesus?

Angel can been rendered as "messenger" but Rev 12 says this "ANGEL" DESCENDED from Heaven having the great chain to bind Satan. So this messenger, was a messenger who "DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN"-an angel, even how it is rendered in the verse.

 2009/4/18 21:11Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""Then how do you interpret Revelation 12:1-17? Are these events not speaking of Christ's birth, life and resurrection?"""

No, They are speaking of the Church the Body of Christ and Satan's fall by Her testimony and the Blood of the Lamb.

The Woman is not Mary, though what happened to Mary is by the Holy Spirit, and what happens to the Church is the representation herein of The Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and the Life of Christ, by His Spirit in the believer giving the Church His Body The place where she is Safe, by the Christ in each of Her believers also His Bride.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/4/18 22:40Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Why would John be seeing the birth of Christ-when he already wrote about the birth of Christ in the Gospel of John?



This is only absurd if you read Rev as occurring during a 7 year tribulation and take a very literal interpretaion, which I maintain you do not have to.

So if the Male-child in Rev 12 is not Christ then who is he?

 2009/4/19 16:47Profile





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