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Joined: 2009/3/25
Posts: 1

 i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

Why would Jesus pray to God when he is God?so its God praying to himself? i Know that God is satisfied in himself but...ya also Jesus will sit at the right hand of God .. but Christ is God... or is Christ a form of God?

 2009/3/25 13:41Profile

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

If I could recommend R. A. Torrey as an excellent teacher -

Also J. C. Ryle.

GOD Bless you.

 2009/3/25 14:02

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

*Edited and improved*

Hello, and welcome to SI!

These are good questions.

These are good questions! Since the time of the Apostles men have wrestled with this subject. Finally, in the sixth century AD the issue came to a head, and resulted in an overwhelming agreement in the Church called the [url=]Athanasian Creed[/url], which I suggest every Christian read.

The basic idea is that one God has and does exist from eternity in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Again, these three Persons are one God. They are not each 1/3 of God, or three separate Gods. They are Each and One Almighty God Indivisible. Confused? You should be. If God could be fully comprehended by men, He would be an invention of man.

We derive these truths as necessary consequences of comparing scripture to scripture. If it had not been revealed by God in the Word, we would never have guessed it. There are many available resources to show the passages and explain difficulties, such as [url=]this[/url] and [url=]this[/url], but here are two plain reasons for believing in the Trinitarian view of God.

Consider the reasoning of God in Hosea 13:4.

"I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Divine logic is direct: because God alone can decisively save men, no one else is worthy of worship. Only a capable savior may be lifted up as God, and God is the only capable Savior. Then we must relive the surprise which would have overcome first-century Jews who read in John's first epistle,

"We have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." [1 John 4:14]

If the Son is a mere finite being then this privileged title would be infinitely inappropriate. He would be like the man of lawlessness, "sitting in the temple of God, showing Himself that He is God." [2 Thes. 2:4] Yet note how many times the New Testament teaches us to look to Jesus for salvation. Clearly this is an office reserved in the Old Testament to God and is suitable to Christ only if He is Himself Deity. This is His own emphatic claim, for as we read in John 8:58, Jesus spoke of Himself in the present perfect tense, as one who is eternally existent:

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

This radical claim was acknowledged by the Pharisees who took up stones to kill Jesus for blasphemy, since this was nothing else but an assertion to be essentially one with the God of Exodus 3:14 -

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

If we now agree that God has existed from all time in the persons of both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit, then we may begin to receive the fact that these persons have always shared communication amongst themselves in a way we cannot fathom, probably because of its sublime simplicity and not some humanly contrived complexity. But even if such a glorious exchange consisted in unified agreement regarding the decrees, and a wonderfully mutual love and worship of Himself, this leaves the question of why it was necessary for God the Son Incarnate to pray?

When the Son took on flesh as Jesus Christ, he came to be the Second Adam, to stand for the Elect as their legal Representative. This meant fulfilling the perfect obedience required by God of men, in order to receive for us the heavenly reward. Therefore he lived as a perfect man, made under the law and like us in all things, sin excepted [Gal. 4:4]. Though possessing two complete natures, that of God and that of true man, He was yet one person. As God He is equal to the father. As the perfect man he humbled Himself to pray. He became the supreme pattern of humility, faith, and obedience. Just as Jesus was also baptized to fulfill obedience, so He made use of prayer as God's appointed means for delivering His will, and received answers by that means. In this way Christ is a suitable High Priest for us.

With all this in mind, I suggest you read John 17 and rejoice in our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 2009/3/25 14:19Profile

Joined: 2007/2/21
Posts: 220
Richmond, VA


Amen brothers Athanasus was a champion in defending the doctrine of Christ. He really came against arianism in the church and wrote volumes on the subject. Funny thing is, that if you read some of his works on the issue they are very simple to understand.

Oh ! by the way this is what Arianism was

The heresy originated by Arius of Alexandeder in the early fourth century, was the teaching that as a created being, Jesus was merely a man, and not co-equal with God the Father. He taught that Christ was not one in substance was either the Father or the Holy Ghost. Often considered the most serious of the heresies, it almost overran the visible church shortly after it was introduced, and remains very prevalent today.

You see this same trend of teaching with JW's today.

Be blessed dear friends


 2009/3/25 14:30Profile

Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

Jesus has been God from all eternity, but when the time came for Him to come to earth He became a man. He was every bit as much human as you and I are, a litteral descendent of Adam. But He never stopped being God. So Christ is 100% God and 100% human at the same time now. While Christ was on earth He did nothing from His divinity. He lived life totally dependant upon God. That's why He had to pray and seek the Father in heaven daily.

Jeremy Hulsey

SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/3/25 14:33Profile

Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

GOD chose to manifest Himself to us in the form
of Jesus Christ. This is the mystery of the
incarnation. There are three personages:
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are one GOD.

Martin G. Smith

 2009/3/25 15:30Profile

Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

Christ is God.

Here is a straight-forward Scripture to ease your mind:

[i]But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.[/i] - Hebrews 1:8

With care in Christ,

Taylor Otwell

 2009/3/25 18:09Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


Taylor, that nails His Deity! Good verse.

To the original poster, I re-wrote my response, in case you missed it.

 2009/3/25 19:08Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230

 Re: i NEed in a crisis its about basic doctrine

The trinity is not something you will ever completely understand.
It is accepted more than understood.
I suggest you start at a point and work your way out. However it is imperative you do your study with the Holy Spirit as your guide. Pray and ask for illumination,but ask seasoned brethren a million questions.
I would start with a study on the deity of Jesus,and look deeply into his deity and Godhead.
Jesus is creator in johns gospel.
How could they be one and yet 3 separate persons? I personally take this by faith.
How does a cow eat green grass and give white milk? There is a certain mystery to the things of God. But it is so beautiful ,and the adventure and wonderment of the depths of his being. Who can fully understand Him? Our minds are finite and we must be enlightened from heaven and not man. However it is through each other we understand anything at all. Do you see how 2 things can be true of a single thing?
This is what I have discovered of God.
Is Jesus a lion or a lamb? yes he is both. And so I hope this helps you ,and know this, we all have questions. And the exciting thing is,you may receive revelation on this very subject that blows all of us away!

 2009/3/26 0:12Profile

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