| Re: Jesus Christ is God, and we are not|
To Jesus-is-God, et al:
Below, in Scripture, in the book of Hebrews, you will find who and what Jesus Christ is. He is God incarnate, Immanuel, God with us. Born supernaturally by a virgin, impregnated by the Holy Ghost. The Holy One within the womb of Mary. A man without sin from the beginning. Entirely God, and entirely man, the Son of Man while He lived here on this earth with us.
[b]Please, compare this JESUS CHIRST, as described in the Book of Hebrews, found in the Protestant Bible of the Reformation, the Received Text, the King James Bible, that was passed down from the beginning by the believing Church to the "jesus" that you and your supporters have posted here, about who you think Jesus is, and your equality with Him.
As believers, we are merely son's of God, and that will only be ACCOMPLISHED at the rapture. "Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God". Right now, those that truly believe are being sanctified, waiting for the day, at the rapture, when we can be like Him. However, He is God, and we will be His sons, hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3)[/b]
Psalm 51:5 tells us about King David, God's Anointed- a sinner, with the sin nature inherited from Adam flowing through his veins. :
5. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalms 71:22 tells us of [b]Jesus Christ, the Holy One of Israel:[/b]
22.I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, [b]O thou Holy one of Israel.[/b]
1.1[b]divers manners[/b] The Old Testament Scriptures were all from God, but He used many different writers over the ages and different manners of inspiration to write them. Whatever method was used, however-whether direct dictation or special revelation or the individual knowledge and ability of the writer- all were so guided and illuminated by the Holy Spirit that the words finally written down were as through spoken by God Himself- Spirit breathed Words directly from God.
1:2 [b]by his Son[/b] God spoke intermittently and partially by the Old Testament prophets, but finally and fully by His Son through the apostles (Heb 2:3)
1.2[b]heir of all things[/b] As Romans 8:17 tells us: 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.-[b]joint heirs[/b] The Son has been given all the nations and the uttermost parts of the earth for thine inheritance (Psalm 2:8) He created all things and is appointed heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2) This is a portion of what it means for us to be adopted children and thus to share His inheritance. See also (Ephesians 1:11, 14:1) (1 Peter 1:4)
1.2[b]Made the worlds[/b] The Son is the Creator of all things (John 1:1-3; Ephesians 3:9; Col 1:16). Here it notes that Christ created the space/time cosmos. He is Creator of time, as well as space and matter, thus beautifully reflecting the scientific concept of the universe as space/matter/time continuum.
1.3[b]brightness of his glory[/b] Brightness is from a Greek word used only here in the New Testament, literally meaning off-flashing. In cntext of both passage and modern astronomy, it couild well be understood as radiation. As the express image of the Father, the Son of God is alalogous to the life-giving rays from the sum. Just as the Father dwells in the light which no man can approach unto (1 Tim 6:16), so can no man gaze long at the sun without being blinded. Yet, physically speaking, as the suns radiation provides both light and life to the world, so the Son is spiritually both the light of the world (John 1:14; 14:6; Acts 17:28)
1.3[b]Word of his power[/b] The eternal Son created all things by His omnipotent Word (Heb 11:3) (Psalm 33:6) and is now upholding all things by the word of His power. Note the remarkable relationship here between things and power, or in modern scientific jargon, between mass and energy. The atomic structure of our very bodies is being held together (or sustained) by mysterious nuclear forces or binding energies that keep the atoms from disintegrating into chaos.
The purging of our sins was accomplished solely by himself;, we have contributed nothing whatever to His great work of saving our souls.
1:3[b]right hand[/b] Out of the 21 references to Christ being at the right hand of the Father (the first being in Psalm 16:8), five occur in Hebrews (1:3, 13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2)
1:4 [b]being made[/b] The Son, by His essential deity, is acknowledged as Being (Heb 1:3), but in His perfect humanity, He was Being made. He created all the angels, when He became man, He was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death (Heb 2:9), but now, having been appointed heir of all things Heb 1:2) in His glorified humanity, He is forever better than angels, even in His humanity.
1:5 [b]said he[/b] This is the first of at least 40 quotations in Hebrews from the Old Testament Scriptures. A perennial objection of the Jews has been that God has no Son, since He is one God (Deut 6:4), so the writer begins by showing their own Scriptures prove God to be both Father and Son. This particular reference is from Psalm 2:7, referring to Gods Son and also to His coming resurrection as the first begotten from the dead (Acts 13:33, Col 1:18)
1:6[b]and again[/b] this reference to the coming Son is from 2 Samuel 7:14. The terms of that particular promise to David had an initial fulfillment in Solomon, but its eternal terms could apply only to the coming Messiah.
1:6 [b]he saith[/b]From Psalm 97:7, where the angels are called gods. In the psalm, the gods are evidently fallen angels who have promoted pagan worship of themselves. However, its citation in Hebrews indicates that all angels, whether faithful or fallen, are commanded to worship the true God of creation, which means, essentially, to bow down to the will of God.
1:7 [b]he saith[/b] This passage is quoted from Psalm 104:4, the great psalm of creation, providence, and the flood. The angels were created as spirits, evidentially immediately after the creation of the universe, they have not existed from eternity. As the next verses assert, however, the Soan has been forever. Note again Hebrews 1: and Psalm 2:27, Thou art my Son
This prophecy was given a thousand years before the Son became man, yet He already was the Son.
1:8[b]unto the Son[/b] Christ is the Son of God[b] by resurrection[/b] (Heb 1:5a; Acts 13:33; Romans 1:4); [b]human generation[/b](Heb 1:5)& (Luke 1:33); [b]and inheritance[/b] (Hebrews 1:2; 1:13). In contrast to the eternal Son, angels are the sons of God by special creation (Job 38:7; Psalms 104:4-5)
1:8[b]he saith[/b] See (Psalms 45:6-7)
1:9 [b]God, even thy God[/b] The testimony of Psalms 45:6-7 as quoted here is clearly messianic; it is both addressed to God (note thy throne, O GodHeb 1:8) abd spoken about God (God hath anointed thee
One person of the Godhead is speaking to another person of the Godhead.
1:12[b]thou art the same[/b] Although His creation is now decaying, the Creator and His Word remain the same forever (Heb 13:8; Matt 24:35; 1 Peter 1:24-25)
1:13[b]Sit on my right hand[/b] See Psalms 110:1. There are five references in Hebrews to Christ, the Son of God, at the right hand of God (Heb 1:3, 13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2)
2:7[b]Lower than the Angels[/b] See also Hebrews 2:9.[b] The Son of God became Jesus, Son of man,by divine incarnation (Heb 2:14-16). He who was better than the angels (Heb 1:4) was made a little [that is, for a little time33 years] lower than the angels. He who was the divine Word became Flesh (John 1:14); He who was equal with God became a servant (Philippians 2:7)[/b]
2.7 [b]glory and honor[/b] He was obedient unto death in His incarnation; therefore He has been given the name which is above every name (Philippians 2:8-9)
2:8 [b]under his feet[/b] Even the angels are to be in subjection to man (Heb 1:4, 2:8; 1 Cor 6:3). The first man, Adam, was given dominion over the earth and all its creatures (Genesis 1:26-28) but sin intervened and it remains for the Son of Man, the last Adam (1 Co 15:45), to regain mans lost dominion.
2:8 [b]all in subjection[/b] Jesus, as the perfect man and as Son of man, at times even during His first coming exercised His future dominion over the earth (Matthew 17:27) & (Mark 4:41). This was just a prophetic foreshadowing and evidence that He will exercise mans dominion in all its fullness in the age to come. First, however, He had to purge our sins and eventually remove the great curse from the earth.
2:9[b]for every man[/b] Note that Jesus did not die merely for the sin of the world (John 1:29), but for [b]every man individually[/b] Furthermore, as Paul says, Christ loved me, and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20)
2:10[b]all things[/b] Compare Hebrews 1:1-3; Romans 11:36; Colossians 1:16-20
2:10 [b]captain of their salvation[/b] Captain (Greek archegos) is translated prince in Acts 3:15 and 5:31 and [b] author[/b] in Hebrews 12:2, speaking of Christ in all cases. These are its only occurrences. Thus, He is the [b]Prince of Life, the Captain of our Salvation and the author
of our faith[/b]
2:10 [b][color=990000]perfect through sufferings[/b] How could the holy God be made perfect? The answer is that, if He would also be perfect man, He must learn obedience to the will of the Father and true obedience can only be tested if it involves suffering. See (Hebrews 5:8-9)[/color][/b]
2:11 [b]sanctified[/b] For "sanctified, read being sanctified.
2:12[b]Saying[/b] Here the writer quotes from Psalm 22:22 at the prophetic description of the very climax of Christs crucifixion sufferings.
2:12 [b]midst of the church[/b] In the Hebrew scriptures, this word is congregation. Thus, the little congregation at the foot of the cross, consisting of John and Mary and the other women, is called here a church (compare Matthew 18:17-20)
2:13 [b]again[/b] Apparently these two references are referring to Isaiah 8:17-18
2:14 [b]the devil[/b] the devil has the power of death in the sense that, through his first lie (continuing today in many forms of humanism and anti-theism), he tempted Adam to bring sin into the world, and therefore death into the world (Romans 5:12). He would seek to impose physical death on the whole human race if he could, although he can only bring about a particular death when God allows it some greater purpose (1 Cor 5:5) & (Job 2:4-6)
2:15 [b]deliver them[/b] Satan may have thought he had gained victory over God when Gods Son died on the cross, but that very death assured his ultimate destruction (Col 2:14-15) & (Rev 1:18)
2:15 [b]fear of death[/b] The redeemed child of God no longer nees to fear death, for to him to die is gain (Phil 1:21, Phil 1:23, 1 Thes 4:13)
2:15 [b]to bondage[/b] This pertains to our deliverance from spiritual bondage. See also (Romans 7:23-25) & ( Romans 8:15)
2:16 [b]seed of Abraham[/b][b][color=990000] Christ took on him the seed of Abraham by taking up residence for nine months in the womb of Mary, who was truly Abrahams seed. Inherent sin and genetic defects, however, had been transferred through Abrahams seed (originally from Adam and Eve) to all his descendents, including Mary, and they could not have been incorporated in that holy thing created and placed in her body, for He must be without blemish and without spot in order to qualify as our Savior from sin. (see Luke 1:35 holy thing- it is striking that the embryonic Jesus in Marys womb must be called that holy thingnot the babe or the child or something else. There is no human word to fit. Actually the word thing is not in the originaljust the holy, or perhaps the holy [one]. See also Romans 1:3 & 1 Peter 1:19[/color][/b]
2:17 [b]like unto his brethren[/b] Christ had to be a true man in all points, from conception to death,[b][color=990000] apart from innate sin. This required a miraculous, virginal conception, but in every other respect he partook of true human flesh.[/color][/b]
2:17 [b]high priest[/b] This is the first specific reference to Christ as our High Priest, a theme which is prominent throughout the rest of Hebrews.
2:18 [b]tempted[/b][b][color=990000] In His humanity, JESUS WAS TESTED IN ALL POINTS LIKE WE ARE, EXCEPT FOR SIN. This does not mean that He was tempted to commit all kinds of sins, but rather that He was tested and proved in every way. He could not have actually sinned because: 1. He is God, and God cannot be tempted with evil (James 1:13); 2) He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8), so that, even in His humanity He did not cease to be God; 3) because of His miraculous conception, He had no innate sin, so that "IN HIM IS NO SIN (1 John 3:5); 4) He did not need, as other men, to be converted, telling Nicodemius, ye must be born again (John 3:7)not we or they. 5) God cannot fail in His creative purpose because He is both omniscient and omnipresent; if Jesus had sinned, salvation would have been impossible, and the Creator would have been defeated by Satan, a mere creature; this could not have been possible. He knew (as did His Father) that He could not sin, but men and angels did not know this until it had been demonstrated to them. That is why He had to be tested as proof positive.[/color][/b]
3:1 [b]Apostle[/b] this is the only time that Christ is called an apostle (meaning literall one who is sent). He was sent by the Father as the Apostle of our profession (John 27:18) & John 20:21)
3:1 [b] High Priest[/b] As an Apostle, Christ represents God to man; as our High Priest, He represents man to God.
3:4 [b]built all things[/b] From Hebrews 3:3 it is evident that Christ is the Builder of the cosmic house; from this verse, therefore, it follows that Christ is God. He is the one who created and made all things (John 1:3; Col 1:16)
3:7 [b]Holy Ghost saith[/b] Psalm 95-7-11 is under discussion in the section from Hebrews 3:7 through Hebrews 4:10, with the author drawing an analogy between the rebellious Israelites in the wilderness under Moses and the professing Jewish believers of his own day who were being tempted into Jewish legalism. Specifically he is quoting here (Heb 3:7-11) as an assertion of the Holy Spirit Himself. In Hebrews 4:7, he indicated that the author of the words was David, even though Psalm 95 carries no superscript of authorship (the same situation occurs when Psalms 2:1-2 is quoted in Acts 4:25-26). It is thus a significant characteristic of divine inspiration that a section of Scripture is attributed both to David and the Holy Spirit, even when the section seems officially anonymous.
3:9 [b]forty years[/b] It probably was no coincidence that God gave Israel 40 years to repent after Christs crucifixion before He sent the Roman army under Titus in A.D. 70 to destroy Jerusalem and its temple.
3:14 [b]partakers[/b] the word partakers in this verse is used in the sense of fellows or partners. Those who hold their confidence in Christ until the end demonstrate that they were true believers in Christ from the beginning, rather than shallow professors of faith without real understanding of commitment (see 1 John 2:19)
4:2 [b]the gospel[/b] The gospel is not just a New Testament revelation, for it was preached to the children of Israel in the wilderness, in types and prophecies at least. In fact, it is the everlasting gospel (Rev 14:6-7), and the first promise of redemption (Genesis 3:15) is commonly known as the protovangel (first gospel). In its essence, the gospel (good news) is the message that the Creator is also the Reedemer and coming King and that true faith in Him---faith which produces salvationwill also produce loving obedience to His Word.
4:2[b]mixed with faith[/b]It is vital to hear the Word, but then it is necessary to believe it as well (John 5:24) & (James 1:22)
| 2009/3/21 1:15|
| Re: |
Walter, you just proved again that you Do Not read anyone's posts. This is so sad. I'm not angry at you but I grieve for you cutting yourself by not attempting to understand your Brethren. That is a loss.
I won't teach - I'll just find Teachings by Brothers that will teach.
You are hitting on The Deity of Christ.
That is the 'one' Doctrine that I will defend to the death.
You are Again Mis-representing my posts and that borders now on Lying.
My 'only' difference with you has been on this Divine blood theory.
Jesus is and was Always GOD and you Know that I obviously believe that.
I have Never said that we are "equal" to HIM but have Repeatedly said that HE was our "Example" of how to walk this Christian walk. You have not understood the Scriptures posted on the previous page nor any other page - you'd rather fight - again - with anyone - me or any of the Brothers on the other thread. You are just contentious and insulting at any opportunity that you can find... and that is very very sad.
"HE IS OUR EXAMPLE" and you'll never rob me of that.
Please stop lying or misrepresenting my or anyone else's posts on JESUS -- for your own sake. You are becoming the accuser of the brethren with your mis-representations.
Read other's posts - please.
You have not read these that I've posted to your own loss - because again - you'd rather mis-represent other's posts by Not reading them At All.
Here's another that I haven't posted yet, for your accusation that I claimed equality with Christ.
Did do you understand this Scripture that I posted on page 3?
"And I heard a Great Voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And He said unto me, It is done. I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be my son."[/b]
Love & Truth is essential for Salvation. Not loving the Brethren and not speaking the truth about what they've said is lying. Please be careful for your own sake.
| 2009/3/21 2:30|
| Re: |
Maybe this will be of more help to your understanding - The verses I gave toward the end of the previous page -
Please allow Wesley, Mathew Henry, Etc to explain these to you -
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels;
[b]but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [/b]
http://bible.cc/hebrews/2-16.htm - it is important to know Why HE took the seed of Abraham.
17 [b]Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,[/b] that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
[b]Philippians 2:5-8 [/b]
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, [b]and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [/b]
8[b]And being found in fashion as a man,[/b] he humbled himself, and [b]became obedient[/b] unto death, even the death of the cross.
A non-regenerated man's spirit is "dead". That is the "death" that Adam passed onto us - not his "blood".
When they are truly converted - "born-again" - their spirit is quickened and infilled with Christ's Spirit and are called New Creations.
GOD is Spirit - HE breathed life into Adam - Adam experienced 'spiritual' death at the fall.
We inherited that deadened spirit - that is why we need to be born-Again.
Before Ascending Jesus breathed The Spirit into His Disciples.
The sin nature is the 'spiritual death' from Adam.
Our New nature is our spirit's being quicken - made alive IN Christ and With Christ's Spirit.
There is no need to hold to the divine blood theory, when Scripture is very clear that HE was made "in fashion as a man."
"He was made in the likeness of men" through Abraham's seed - the seed of the woman - so that all O.T. Prophetic Scripture about Who He would be could be fulfilled.
[b] John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[i]...of water and of the Spirit[/b] A twofold explanation of the "new birth," so startling to Nicodemus. To a Jewish ecclesiastic, so familiar with the symbolical application of water, in every variety of way and form of expression, this language was fitted to show that the thing intended was no other than a thorough spiritual purification by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, element of water and operation of the Spirit are brought together in a glorious evangelical prediction of Ezekiel ( Ezekiel 36:25-27 ), which Nicodemus might have been reminded of had such spiritualities not been almost lost in the reigning formalism.[/i] [JFB]
Even Calvinists believe that there must be "obvious fruit" that a person has been truly regenerated - Born Anew.
| 2009/3/21 4:17|
| Re: |
To Jesus is God, et al:
My problem with your doctrine, sister, is that I have difficulty with it from a Biblical perspective. From your posts, it seems to me that you continue to:
1. Deny your/our sin nature inherited from Adam. Eventhough you and I have been saved by grace, we have inherited a "sin nature" from Adam & Eve. The sermon on the Mount gives us a crystal clear understanding about the depravity of the mind and heart of man- it is deceitfully wicked. We are indeed saved by grace, by faith alone, but we are ALL still a work in progress until the rapture.
[b]The Old Testament teaches us of the types of Sacrifices that were required to "cover" sin .
The first type of sin that had to be atoned for was for our sin nature, inherited from Adam.
This was a mandatory offering
The second type of sin offering that was mandatory was for a Trespass Guilt-offering for both known and unknown sin.
This was a mandatory offering[/b]
To be a Jew required the two sin offerings listed above- one for our sin nature, and one offering for both known and unknown sin. Without actually taking part in these two Sacrifices of Leviticus, you would be expelled from the camp (& later the nation of Israel),along with your wife and children.
The next 3 sacrifices were voluntary, and were a picture of a deeper, more committed walk with the Lord:
Meal Offering These were in unison
Peace Offering--for a thank, a vow or freewill offering
Once we are saved, all of our sin is forgiven, and we are not going to hell.[b] But, we still sin by throught or deed. And when we sin, we are required by God to pray to God for Forgiveness.[/b]
[b]This is what I see is missing from your Doctrine.[/b]
Christinyou, one of your "supporters" on these threads, continues to post scripture over and over, and will never engage in dialogue with who he is positng against or even explain his postion.[b] He just posts scripure, and scripture alone, and is seemingly quite happy to never, ever have to pray for forgiveness for anything. [/b]
[b]If that is NOT your doctrine, then I would expect you to clarify that IT is NOT your doctrine on these posts. I have never seen you make that statement.[/b]
The only way that we can continue our close, personal walk with the savior is to pray for forgiveness for our sin. Our sin gets less and less with time because we are more and more into His Word, we are being sanctified daily. But we will always have a sin nature until we are raptured, and get rid of our blood, and receive our new, glorified bodies, like Christ's body, and get rid of our corrupt flesh and blood.
How can two walk together,unless they be agreed?
[b]I am not "lying" about your position, nor the position of those that have posted in agreement with you on this site. I am pointing out the positions that I see from your various posts is heresy.[/b]
There is a radio Talk Show in California with [b]Bob George, who teaches the heresy of never having to pray for forgiveness after being saved.If you are in disagreement with Mr George in this matter, then please clarify your position. What is it?[/b]
1st John goes into detail about this requirement of praying to the Father. John is talking to Christian believers, who have already been saved-
1:4. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8.[b] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/b]
Additionally, the Blood of Christ was understood by the Protestant Body of Christ in my youth. We had many "Songs about the Blood" that we all sang and understood when I was a boy, through my 20's. Now, those songs have been ripped from the hymnals by the liberals that have taken over our Bible Colleges and Seminaries. Even Biola University has ripped the blood out of their teaching and hymnals.
[b]In conclusion, please clarify your position. You know mine, I have tried to it make it clear & uderstandable. Please, explain your position to the best of your ability. with your own words, without links to other sites or sermons.[/b]
For many years I attended a Church that supported Home Bible study. We met with eight other people for over 5 years and saw results in the power of prayer for healing an inoperable brain turmor, and other great healings. These men & women would pray for anything, but they refused the requirement to pray for their own sin. Not openly, in front of others, no, but privately to God, our Fahter. One of things that always troubled me was the Prophecy given by some. It was not always correct, it did not always come true. When I pointed out the Old Testament requirement that one mistaken prophecy would require stoning to death, they paid no attention and got upset. It ended up being filled with the flesh, and of no value. These men & women could not put up with the preaching of sin in the life of the believer at our Church. They were only interested in places of worship where they could show off their gifts. That, my dear, is what troubles me with what I perceive your doctrine to be.
[b]If it is not, then please clarify it specifically, in your own words. If I am wrong about my understanding of your doctrine, I will be more than happy to apolgize for any misunderstanding.[/b]
Quote:[b][color=CC0000]This was [/color][/b] :-x
Walter, you just proved again that you Do Not DELETED
| 2009/3/21 5:07|
| Re: |
" let this mind be in you " this statement is of paramount importance . this mind of Christ Jesus being the mind we are supposed to have . this mind of becoming A SERVANT OF ALL . Whoever would be greatest in the kingdom of LOVE , of righteousness peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost , will be a servant of all .. THE BLOOD REPRESENTS THE LIFE < the LIFE which FLOWS from the heart , the heart represents the motive [ intention ] because the heart moves the life [ blood ] throughout our bodies . God created the natural to teach us of the Spiritual , God is a Spirit being , and LOVE is a Spirit and the FATHER of ALL Spirits . Clint
| 2009/3/21 11:38||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi again Walter, I'm having to answer in the same way again, which again is sad, but you again are Mis-representing my posts that are here on these pages for any other Brother to read.
As far as this Scripture that you posted ---
[b]8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/b]
Had you read my posts quoting Paul - you would have Known that I truly know this by John as truth for us.
Where I am not agreeing with you Now, from your last post - is that "we STILL have" Adam's Fallen Nature.
No, that is not true of the truly Regenerate.
We just have and still have and always will have FREE-WILL to do with our minds, thoughts, actions, words - whatever we so [b]choose[/b] to do --- to "walk after the flesh" or "walk after the spirit" .......... so we're right back to where I first posted Romans 8.
Jesus showed us HOW to "walk in the spirit" - which I posted on an earlier page where most of that post was "italized" [though that was by accident - I left it that way].
| 2009/3/21 13:33|
| Re: |
waltern , If you are refering to me being the one that only posts scriptures , i only post the ones that would hopefully help to clarify the true position that we believers have in Jesus , and also the true position we had as unbelievers in adam , our position inherited from adam was not and still is not a substance .It is not a substance in our blood, spiritually dead is not a substance .. the Sin nature you refer to is not the biblical idea , of the nature which we are born into , and inherited through adam. what the bible says we inherited through adam is not anything of substance that is Sinful nor Sin itself. What we all are born into is a fallen sin cursed world , we are born into death , death is the result of sin and not the "Sin " itself. the scripture that says " in sin my mother concieved me " is not saying that this is our inherited sin substance in the womb , all it is saying is that the mother was a sinner at the time of the writters mothers conception of him . We become sinful after birth .. Sin is a transgression of the law , nothing more nothing less. there is not A Sin Root in our bodies at birth and that is why we then sin. there is not a Sin root in our bodies as Christians , and that because of this Sin root being there until we are raptured , we are more or less disposed to ever sin in some degree because the Root of Sin is still there until death or the rapture. This dogma , of this false idea , of some substance of sin in us at birth and some sin substance in us until we die , and ,or raptured is and absurd notion and it belittles the Efficacy of the atoning Blood of Christ Jesus. I do believe in praying for forgivness , but only for those sins which we have truely turned from , and really wholehearedly have repented of, I do not believe in asking God to forgive me of any sin that i am still commiting.. Asking God to forgive me of Sins that i am still knowingly commiting is absurd too, this takes out the believing part of salvation , and denies our responsibility as Christians to Be Holy as He is Holy , and to be perfect as He is perfect. Having the mind of Christ is not some substance of mind we are given at the rapture when we get our glorified bodies , any more than the nature we inherited through adams transgression is a substance . The mind of Christ we are to have as Christians is a mind to Love the Lord our God with ALL our heart, soul , and strength , and our nieghboors as ourselves . Christ took on Himself the Nature of man , and even though He knew it was not robbery for Him to consider Himself Equals with God , He Became a servant of All.. the mind of Christ which is To Love [ Love ] God supremely with our All and thus being Commited to ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS , just exactly like Jesus was Commited to ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS , with this same mind of Christ in us, we to shall be servants of all. This fits whit Jesus' statement to His disciples that WHOEVER want to be Greatest in Gods' Kingdom , will be the servants of all .. May we all have the mind of Christ and share our posts on this site as a servant , concidering one another as more important than ourselves , to cheer and to guide one another to faith and love and all manner of good works . That all who may read these posts see us loving and serving one another in the Spirit of Christ and as He was a servant of All, that we too be servants of one another , esteeming each other higher than we do ourselves.. To lay down our lives for our friends .. I truely consider everyone valuable and the absolute center of Gods attention ..Let us always keep in mind that we , as Christians ,need to " not lean to our own undersanding , but to aknowledge " JESUS " in All our ways " , if you look at this verse long enough you will see where this is so fittting with rightly dividing the Lords body , and , us being his body , becoming fittly Joined together as a Spiritual house , being Filled with all the fullness of God .. I could preach under great unction in the Holy Ghost on this for a while but , I hope this post stirs meditation and praise in Love and His workings in us .. God bless you all always ... Clint
| 2009/3/22 13:54||Profile|