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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1 John 1:8

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MattChenier
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

I agree with the Charles Finney quote. 1 John 1:8 refers to the unsaved condition of a man.

As far as willful and ignorant sins, that is another topic. Is a young child not excused from their sin for their ignorance? Is it not altogether because they don't understand right and wrong? Does God not excuse us for the same? I had not known sin until I had known the law. But when the law entered, sin slew me. I think an important aspect to bring into this picture is the "pure conscience" that Paul spoke about. 1 John 1:8 is not an excuse for an unclean conscience. Ignorant sin does not defile your conscience. Willful sin does. If we don't have a pure conscience at the moment of Christ's return, will he take us with him? Or will we have to turn back in order to purchase oil? We will altogether be left out of the Kingdom of God if we have a defiled conscience. Cleanse yourselves and IF you sin, repent, then go and sin NO MORE lest a worse thing come upon you.


_________________
Matt Chenier

 2009/3/7 12:38Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

hello Jim , this is Clint . i do not know why some people will always claim that we have sin no matter what . Whether it is known or unknown matters not when it comes to being free from all of it. Free of it from our Flesh and souls and spirits as the bible claims that the Blood of Christ does. what really needs to be known is the holy Spirit and the ministration of life and that life is Jesus and God the Father indwelling us and we abiding in them through the Holy Spirit. teachers that teach that we will always have sin as long as we live do not understand what Jesus secured for us by His atonement. God is not always , constantly at every moment cleansing us from some form of unknown sin. I cannot ,along with everyone that exist believe in nor deny ,something that is not fully understood, nor the ideal of it developed. i hear that there is such athing as unknown sin but i can not agree or dissagree because it has not been shown me to be scriptually true . So far as my knowledge is i cannot believe that sin is anything more than voluntarily , choosing to withhold Love from God with part of our heart and souls and strenght. If we do not know we are doing this , then we sin not, and are still free from all sin.. Jesus refused to wash peters whole body because it was already Clean. Jesus washed peters' and the other disciples' feet because that is what came into contact with the world. This feet washing example points to the reality of being without sin completely !!! as so very many Scriptures do. Every Christian can walk in SINLESS PERFECTION the bible everywhere exspesses this most assuredly and unequivically.


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Clint Demoret

 2009/3/7 17:02Profile









 Re:

Clint-

If you were judged by your works apart from the blood of Christ on any day since your conversion you would surely split hell wide open. That is all I am saying. I am in no way saying we are under the dominion (power and authority) of sin.

1 Corinthians 4:4

Hebrews 10:26

Psalm 19:12-13

Be sure to take the "sinless" perfection test at

[url=http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html]http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html[/url]

if you haven't.

In Christ

-Jim

 2009/3/7 20:53









 Re:





[b]What an awesome answer, Brother Jim, and truly from the teaching (Doctrine) of the Bible that has been taught and understood by the
true church since the Reformation![/b]

Everyone who thinks that once they are saved that they never sin again should read the Sermon on the Mount. We all sin by thought and deed, not just by our deeds. The thoughts in our heads and hearts are witnesses against all people of flesh and blood, all people descended from Adam.

If the Sermon on the Mount does not convince you, then take the "sinless" perfection test and find out that "flesh and blood cannot inherit eternal life"
(1 Corinthians 15:50).Without new, resurrected bodies we cannot even enter into heaven, and the presence of God. We still mainitain our "sin nature", inherited from Adam until we receive a new, glorified, resurrected body just like that of Jesus Christ. We only have the down payment, once we are saved. It is not until the rapture, with bodies of flesh and bone, glorified bodies, are we able to totally "be like Him"--where our thoughts and actions will always, and forever & ever glorify HIM.

The "Sinless Perfection Test":

[url=http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html]http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Clint-

If you were judged by your works apart from the blood of Christ on any day since your conversion you would surely split hell wide open. That is all I am saying. I am in no way saying we are under the dominion (power and authority) of sin.

1 Corinthians 4:4

Hebrews 10:26

Psalm 19:12-13

Be sure to take the "sinless" perfection test at

[url=http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html]http://www.puregospeltruth.com/sinlesstest.html[/url]

if you haven't.

In Christ

-Jim

 2009/3/7 23:23
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

I do believe that you misunderstand the " Sin nature" that we supposedly inherited from adam. All that we inherited from adams' sin is death. which is the OUTCOME of SIN and not sin itself. Now this outcome has EFFECTED us in the since that the appetites and propensities have been ENFLUENCED and TWISTED. the people who take the enfluence form the outcome of sin , which is physical death and spiritual death, and make the mistake of calling that Sin, are making a gross and erroneous mistake. The bible and gospel never makes Sin out to be constitutional , or in other words , physical and INVOLUNTARY . there is a big difference between physical depravity, and moral depravity. physical depravity in and of itself is not sin.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/3/8 12:51Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Clint wrote:


Quote:
i hear that there is such athing as unknown sin but i can not agree or dissagree because it has not been shown me to be scriptually true . So far as my knowledge is i cannot believe that sin is anything more than voluntarily , choosing to withhold Love from God with part of our heart and souls and strenght.



This is what Scripture teaches...

..............................................................................................
Lev. 4:
1 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, 3 if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the LORD for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering.


Lev. 4:13 “Now if the whole congregation of Israel sins unintentionally, and the thing is hidden from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which should not be done, and are guilty; 14 when the sin which they have committed becomes known, then the assembly shall offer a young bull for the sin, and bring it before the tabernacle of meeting.


Lev. 4:22 “When a ruler has sinned, and done something unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD his God in anything which should not be done, and is guilty, 23 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a male without blemish.


Lev. 4:27 “If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty, 28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed.

.............................................................................................

Do you hear what the Scriptures say?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/3/8 13:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I do believe that you misunderstand the " Sin nature" that we supposedly inherited from adam.



Then I would stand with a long line of Godly men who misunderstand this. As always, this discussion has come to it's head. Brother, we are both talking about the same reality, walking in a pure conscience with victory over sin through faith in Christ alone. I just can't puff myself up and claim I am sinlessly perfect. Dead to sin and it's dominion yes... but like king David I must humble my heart and set my eyes on Christ for forgiveness of even my hidden faults.

Grace and peace to you in Him dear brother.

-Jim

 2009/3/8 13:26
wtninChrist
Member



Joined: 2009/2/17
Posts: 41
Muscle Shoals, AL

 Re:

Thank you brother Jim!!!

 2009/3/8 15:00Profile
MattChenier
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

I do not have to sin. You do not have to sin. And nobody can prove different. I CAN sin if I want to. But I do not have to sin. When you say we cannot live without sinning you say I MUST sin. Why then did Jesus die? Why not just keep using bulls and sheep blood?

I no longer have the nature of Adam. I have the nature of God. I am a new creature. I am born of the second Adam. I overcome the world and the lust thereof. I am alive to the Kingdom of God and do not set my affections on this world. When I do this, I do not sin.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

(on a total side not. Right now it is hailing the largest hail I have ever seen. It is almost as big as a dime.) God bless.


_________________
Matt Chenier

 2009/3/8 17:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I do not have to sin. You do not have to sin. Any nobody can prove different.



Nobody (that I have seen) is arguing this brother... please see previous posts.

-Jim

 2009/3/8 17:04





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